[R.I.P.] life Mjolner done right by Rico - Juggernaut version - R.I.P. thx to "balancing" policy

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philophil wrote:

im sorry but u guys should stop focusing on the CDR/AS target of 4-4.5AS

Ive been playing indigon mjolner for long enough (3 months+) to know that u should stack has much attack speed has possible this allow a lower mana cost n a faster ramp up resulting in a higher %inc spell dmg potential.

Ive been playing with 5.25 to even 6 APS n it feel much better, also the APS vs Proc table only work if u are using 1 spell the moment u add arc u must throw that away.

Do not cap ur APS try to go for has much has possible.

If someone want to argue otherwise ill let this speak for itself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHgQ75LVtAk&t=13s

Can easly break your world.

If someone want to argue otherwise ill let this speak for itself
Playing for 3 months, and don't even know when cyclone consumes mana, Hello legacy VoV and other items...

https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Cyclone

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Cyclone moves to a targeted location at the player's movement speed

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Therefore, high movement speed will allow the player to start another Cyclone in a different direction sooner

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However, high attack speed and low movement speed allows for more hits on a stationary enemy.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1846362/page/235#p15803145
Maybe you dont knew, but cyclone consumes mana when start spin, not when attack.

And now, tell me, my 3 months, "legacy gear" friend. How attack speed affects the %inc spell dmg potential.

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philophil wrote:

im sorry but u guys should stop focusing on the CDR/AS target of 4-4.5AS

Ive been playing indigon mjolner for long enough (3 months+) to know that u should stack has much attack speed has possible this allow a lower mana cost n a faster ramp up resulting in a higher %inc spell dmg potential.

Ive been playing with 5.25 to even 6 APS n it feel much better, also the APS vs Proc table only work if u are using 1 spell the moment u add arc u must throw that away.

Do not cap ur APS try to go for has much has possible.

If someone want to argue otherwise ill let this speak for itself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHgQ75LVtAk&t=13s

Not exactly as Cyclone hits twice per aps. Build was designed with one or two spells socketed in mjolner, my table from the first post is still valid.

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Doklol34 wrote:

Ur assuming so much thing in ur comment, let me explain how u are missing the entire point of this setup. When u pair Legacy VoV+ ball lightning u enable a nearly perma mana leech situation n i can prove it simply by how my cyclone mana cost go pass 3K mana. Ive never said cyclone consume mana on hit, but u can enable the playstyle by using ball lightning that hit every .2sec with VoV.

Has for the cyclone movespeed mechanic i guess u just didn't look at my profile cuz im using the best movespeed flask exactly for this paired with pathfinder. So yes im well aware of it.

Has for the APS/inc spell dmg, this is something u should understand. If u get higher APS u will spend more mana per second at equal movesepeed, so u enable a lower mana cost. The lower ur mana cost is the more indigon stack u can have. So yes increasing ur APS while lowering ur mana cost will result in more Inc spell dmg potential.

If u want to prove me otherwise ill be happy to talk about it, but don't come at me with comment but rather real proof AKA video.

Ive tried both version of optimized APS n higher mana cost, and the current version high APS n lower mana cost. And so far the higher APS version is the best of both.

Sry if legacy gear trigger u

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RicoKGB wrote:

Not exactly as Cyclone hits twice per aps. Build was designed with one or two spells socketed in mjolner, my table from the first post is still valid.

I didn't mean that it doesn't work but rather that having high APS will result in a fast boss kill time or result.

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having high APS will result in a fast boss kill time or result

Mmm... 6 APS = 12 hits per second = hit every ~0.08 sec. Mjoln can trigger every .208 sec for single spell with 20% cdr.
We obtain the following result:
.08 - hit - discharge (on cd to .288)
.16 - hit - arc (on cd to .368)
.24 - hit
.32 - hit - discharge (on cd to .528)
etc.

Why APS more then needed for cd grant "fast boss kill time"? As a result you lose every 3rd hit and "increased" cd on Mjoln from .208 to .32

I think that you both are right. Cyclone mechanics are a bit confusing, theres also accuracy involved as well as player error factor etc. I think it is best to just test in-game vs high hp single target that doesnt move to much. Thats why my fav is T16 Mino. I agree that aps maybe out of sync with spell triggers at some value ranges and it is best to have it under certain range (aka my aps to cdr table). But at the same time I can agree that having lots of attack speed and movement speed can benefit indigon stacking and therefore increasing spell damage to a greater values, for example to the lvl where one less spell trigger doesnt matter anymore. It would be nice if we could work on this further to get some solid results that can be verified by in-game testing.

philophil ok, let's begin it will be funny.

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When u pair Legacy VoV+ ball lightning u enable a nearly perma mana leech situation n i can prove it simply by how my cyclone mana cost go pass 3K mana. Ive never said cyclone consume mana on hit, but u can enable the playstyle by using ball lightning that hit every .2sec with VoV.

I dint even talking about VoV and leech, we play the different builds.

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Has for the cyclone movespeed mechanic i guess u just didn't look at my profile cuz im using the best movespeed flask exactly for this paired with pathfinder. So yes im well aware of it.

Y, right just look the video, but, is a good if you sure aware about it.

And the most interesting.

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Has for the APS/inc spell dmg, this is something u should understand. If u get higher APS u will spend more mana per second at equal movesepeed, so u enable a lower mana cost. The lower ur mana cost is the more indigon stack u can have. So yes increasing ur APS while lowering ur mana cost will result in more Inc spell dmg potential.

Ok, you dont bring me any proofs but say that "If u get higher APS u will spend more mana per second at equal movesepeed"
I show you the mana spending timers with different APS on cyclone.

First, if you dont read, read this:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1846362/page/235#p15803145
Based on my calculations, the base time (when you have +\- 0% ms under cyclone as for jugg) when needed cyclone to go for the minimal distance (10 units) is around (0.36-0.38s) (Depends on Ping,Player error factor and some things)
And, sure it's a Base action time for the calc.
Im trying to make a closer to this.
We use my league Jugg.
https://pastebin.com/k4QpbNhK
Indigon calc
And the Indigon calc for this. (we are interested in the first column, No leech hexproof / cannot leech) as he says with there timings, we must go out of mana after 12.95s. (We will use AvG ~0.37)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yKS5Pqt0Tc&feature=youtu.be

Test one: With Mjolner - we have 3.86 cyclone ApS.
Timings.
Start - 07:71
End - 20:08
Time - 12.37 after 12.4 we go out of mana, so close to the calc.

Test two: With Brightbeak - we have 7.04 Cyclone ApS.
Timings.
Start - 33.91
End - 46.55
Time - 12.64 after 12.6 we go out of mana, so close to calc and looks like the same as with 3.86 Cyclone ApS.

(Think, its impossible to pull all of cyclones on a minimal distance in a row, but these numbers a much closer to the true)

If you pop Andrenaline quicksilver, and for example, get +50% MS under cyclone, there will be your cyclone Action time for calcs down from 0.37s to
0.185s in this way, you get the indigon stacks a much faster.

The difference with cyclone APS (Not AT), when you get a more attacks at the same time, attacks only affects your mjolner trigger. And if you have a much more APS then CDR what you have, you start getting a "blank" cyclones, when you attack is ready, but discharge is still on cd. (But or there, need more tests, about CDR\APS)
There just a numbers, no more.

So, if we use cyclone,then its Action Time (Like in th calc), will be affected only by Movement Speed not the AS.

If you can't understand that after a 3 months of playing, and dont understand it now, i think we should not talk further. But maybe you, sure, have another proof?

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Sry if legacy gear trigger u

Np bro, but standart too boring for me.

Doklol34 Thanks for those fixes on my PoB!

I basically just used your PoB, then fixed it for Duelist and imported all my gear and manually added my jewels in haha.

And yeah I've taken a look at that table, without adrenaline I reach 3.96 aspeed with cyclone and since I don't take any CDR I figured it's close enough to the 3.9 listed on the table. I really only have adrenaline up when I have time to let RF drain me of my health or if I want the extra movement speed while mapping
Also adrenaline gives 100% movement speed.

I'm still trying to figure out a way to increase my mana regen. I've been working on the boot enchants still but I can't find any other way to significantly increase it other than belts (which I already have a 20% increased recovery one) and jewels.

Since I usually pop quicksilvers every fight and sometimes adrenaline for boss fights. I just left the action time for Indigon at 0.25.

I'll probably make a juggernaut sooner or later to try out Indigon Mjolner since I haven't done that yet but I really hate starting delves all over again on new characters.

Also some leveling tips, I've found it a lot easier to just level with lifesprigs or random spell% wands or ele% sceptres using arc traps or fire traps. Has an added bonus of not needing facebreaker drops early in the league and also you don't really have to change your passive tree from the normal Mjolner tree to do this since traps scale really well. It's also possible to level using RF and some life flasks from level 30ish too, for extra speed you can just grab the AoE nodes that we travel near or the fire damage nodes.

jnoodle Sure if you want to play like the same build on a different class, why not. Adrenaline provides good MS bonus, but i, idk how to sustain mana under adrenaline and qucksilver both, think you must get inigon stacks very fast. Yep, you sure need enchant, in my pob he gives me 550mp regen. And other it;s a possible mana from tree and jewels.

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Doklol34 wrote:

Playing for 3 months, and don't even know when cyclone consumes mana, Hello legacy VoV

hmmmm u did mention Vov last time i check those are ur word sry if u didn't mean to use those might be a misunderstanding

Has for the APS/Movespeed here's a video i made with my character

1 setup is mjolner with 5.1 APS at 168% MS
2 setup is random axe with 6.37 APS att 168%

I made sure to test twice each to be fair because its impossible to recreate the same cyclone each time.

https://youtu.be/Eqa7ROBbaQE

So with mjolner its about 6-6.5 SEC to run out of mana and 5-5.5 sec with the random axe.

So i think there is more to it then just Movespeed involved. Also if u factor accuracy for optimal proc/sec u have to get APS even Rico did mentionned it.

The reason why i bringed this (having more APS then sugguested)is because ppl are sugguesting to other X APS w/o accounting accuracy and latency.

If u think ur way is the best, then fine im not here to change ur mind, and i don't want to argue or fight on Rico build thread.