NZGDC 2016 Developer Presentation: Labyrinth Design

Irritation to me is all these meta movement/offense-only builds speed-rushing the same low-risk/high-reward areas over and over again.

I guess that's always a problem in any grind-to-get game, but POE used to be brutally tough. Packs of blue mobs could kill you if you got surrounded. A single rare mob could easily end you if didn't pay attention to their mods. Odd roaming exiles could put you back in your hideout before you even knew they were on the screen - remember Minara and those damn exploding zombies? And then there were the unique mobs and bosses. I can't tell you how many times I died to Merveil, Tailsinger, Vaal Oversoul, Snipesnap, Piety, Kole, and Dominus, back when the game was young.

Now every one of those bosses is trivial. Some of that's due to knowledge of the game and it's mechanics, some of it's due to GGG nerfing (Minara again comes to mind).

But mostly it's because with each new content release, our characters have gotten more and more powerful. Higher level types and mod tiers for gear is one big reason, but there's also jewel slots, new flasks, massive amounts of new uniques, ascendancy skills, new auras, movement skills without cooldowns, enchantments on gloves/boots/helms, vaal corruption for some rather OP implicts, chaos damage, more DOT effects like poison and bleeding, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I like this new content and a game has to evolve to keep it's player base. But I can also remember back when a one handed 300 phys dps weapon was almost mirror-worthy. Right now on SC Breach you can find such for as little as 2c.

The game now is about getting to the Dry Lakes area (remind anyone of The Docks way back when?) in each difficulty as fast as you possibly can, repeating that area until you get enough currency (for better gear) and experience (for levels) to be able to beat Malachi, then moving on to the next difficulty level.

Same thing happens when you're finished with merc and move on to maps - there's one or two in each tier that's easily speed-rushable: jungle>beach>phanta>mesa>canyon/strand>trop>prom...

Many players do this ad-nauseam (pun intended), never focusing on any defensive aspect other than maybe an aura and a CWDT setup.

But hey, if that's how you like to play, go for it - just don't bitch about the difficulty of the lab and it being tied to ascendancy skills. You're already making a ton of currency off of your speed runs - use some of it to pay someone to run your fast and happy arse thru uber.

Don't like that? Then maybe put some thought into how to survive in the lab. You can't kill traps and you can't leech them - so swap a few skill points or gems from AoE/DPS/leech to life/armor/eva/es/regen/block.

And learn the layouts. Some trap sequences are quite deadly. Avoid them if possible - often there are multiple paths thru a zone, some being much safer than others. Otherwise, learn to recognize them and *know* where the safe spots are. Also, learn to use a ranged skill or totem to take out sentinel traps before you go attempting to navigate them, especially ones that cause slow, bleed or increase damage.

And as for final uber Izaro, you gotta be able to take a hit and recover. Swap out one of the three quicksilver flasks you normally run with for something that heals - quickly. Or go with a long-lasting granite flask to improve physical damage reduction - Izzy's most damaging attacks are phys based. Quit trying to face-tank or dps him all on one go. Move! Find a safe spot in the room, away from deadly traps. Disable the increased damage sentinels so that a single crit can't cause a one-hit KO. Then attack when he's just completed one of his most damaging attacks, as there's usually a second or two where he won't do anything but just a basic attack. Don't stay too long, tho especially when you see that green circle or he starts to spin. Also, keep up a totem and golem - extra targets for izzy and his minons that are not you.

Most importantly, learn to keep off all of his buffs in the previous two fights. Those buffs can make a world of difference to the difficulty of the final fight. You don't get as a many keys, but you hate lab anyway, and are just doing it for the points and enchantment, right? So make it easier on yourself and just get it done.

And finally, if you're having trouble with uber, don't mess with the mysterious darkshrines, unless you know from poelab.com exactly what it's going to do. 15 of the 31 listed darkshrine effects on the poe wiki affect all areas of the lab, not just the zone you are in. None of them are positive, outside of the increased IQ and IR. This includes the three izzy fights. If you can barely handle uber as is, you don't want to activate a shrine and get perma-cursed with vulnerability or enfeeble for the rest of your lab run.

Badest design ever, for an ARGP IMHO!

Is this supposed to be a troll post? Once I am done with the first 3 labyrinths in the first week I kinda forget they exist and now I am reminded again that yes, such a complete failure of a game design in fact is vert real. Ok, some things I don't understand about "the lab" and how its so much worse than the rest of the content

1. Trials. Why people who have done those trials more than a dozen times already need to do them again at the start of each league? There is no change to either of them or the lab itself so why the hell do you need to run this tutorial over and over again? Is it to force us to visit places we normally wouldn't like the catacomb? Thought we had challenges for that. Its baffling how such an element is not skippable entirely. The game as a whole doesn't have any tutorials and yet those are shoved in our faces, especially in the faces of folks who hate the traps. Furthermore why is there a group of ranged monsters by the end of each "trial" who can shoot at us while we are doing the trial? Their existence makes running them a later affair much like the lab itself.

2. Trash mobs and Izaro. The difference between them is huge, enormous. Now you probably can do the normal and cruel labs early and the mobs wont be so trash but merciless and uber? Sure, prepare to get one shot if you are not leveled! Merciless lab in particular is such a waste because the mobs there are the equivalent of a tier 1 map and they are so numerous too. Come on, we don't need that many potion batteries. Compare this to maps and how we can edit them so even trash mobs become a challenge. Here? No fun whatsoever.

3. Trap gauntlets are bad design for numerous reasons. Lag, desync, zoom distance are the obvious ones. But also the complete inability to see something if a part of the environment is in its way. A part of the ceiling for example. Shouldn't this be fair? Then why there are parts where you are not even sure what trap is ahead unless you look at a certain angle? Of course those trap gauntlets are located conveniently indoors inbetween tight corridors. Brilliant design right there.

4. Build diversity.......what diversity? I stopped making evasion based characters after I realized how trash they are in the lab. Now you stack up your life/life regen and go through this way. A life regen build is so much better at tackling the lab than......pretty much everything else. I know its supposed to be this way for certain content but this is not uber atziri we are talking about, we are talking about a mandatory part of the game which is made harder for certain characters for no reason whatsoever.

5. Why the uber lab trials cant be a map mod and instead have to be random? Tell me why.

Pretty sure I can think of many more flaws but at this point I'd rather go drink some bleach to forget once again that the lab exists. After all I need some motivation for the next league, right?

Wow, despite all the criticisms of the labyrinth, I didn't expect GGG to still pat themselves on the back and come up with this presentation.

The labyrinth is such a divisive piece of content and I'm one of those who feel that the ascendencies (which I think is the best addition to POE) should NOT be gated behind the labyrinth (which I think is the worst content ever)

And GGG is just ignoring the complaints and pretending that everything is nice and swell.
This shows their lack of empathy and how out of touch with the community they are.

Honestly I do mot understand why people are hating so much on lab. I think it s a fun and welcomed change of pace un the game. Ggg explained their views On it quitte often and the communoty isnt listening. It ils no meant to be like other content but as a challenge. No it ils not equal to all builds but all builds have their pros ans cons its meant to be this way. Im glad there is no downvote option on these forums as i would be getting it for a supportive post like this. Sorry for engrish and typos i am posting this from a mobile with autorrect set in a different language.

I don't mind the lab too much.

However, I hate that I lose out on being able to trade while in the lab...

Loved reading the presentation, thanks for sharing. Now I will do some lab or two for fun and keep my eyes open.

"

The Labyrinth isn't universally beloved content...

Ha ha ha, oh well.

I saw Super Metroid in that powerpoint, right in the childhood <3

pls change the lab!

its absolute horror for me

the layout is way too huge and its useless compared to the amount of time needed to process through

i try to avoid the lab as long as i can

"

lorem331 wrote:

Wow, despite all the criticisms of the labyrinth, I didn't expect GGG to still pat themselves on the back and come up with this presentation.

The labyrinth is such a divisive piece of content and I'm one of those who feel that the ascendencies (which I think is the best addition to POE) should NOT be gated behind the labyrinth (which I think is the worst content ever)

And GGG is just ignoring the complaints and pretending that everything is nice and swell.
This shows their lack of empathy and how out of touch with the community they are.

Which part of the community? After all, I, and others in this thread, enjoy the lab.

People will post/write/call to bitch waaaay more frequently than they will to compliment. It's a fact of life. Don't confuse your opinions, or the opinions of even a hundred posters, for what the community at large thinks.