NZGDC 2016 Developer Presentation: Labyrinth Design
" I don't know why is it so hard for someone over the age of 12 to understand the point. They designed the lab for ascendancy points and a big percentage of the players absolutely hates to run it. What do skills have to do with it? Anyone can run it without dying in under 15 minutes. It isn't even a labyrinth when the map is online everyday. It is a feature that a big piece of the players absolutely despises so it's a fail. There is no right or wrong opinion about the lab being good or no. It's what the players like in a game and lab has failed to satisfy half of them or at least a big number of them. Again,your skillful lab running superiority is completely out of place on the subject. | |
" Your assumption, which is most likely completely false. There is no evidence to support your claim when PoE has a playerbase ranked in the millions. A few hundred people complaining about the lab on the forum, and several hundred rating it low in straw polls means nothing compared to the total number of players in the game. People who dislike something are proven throughout modern history to be the most vocal about it. So if even a thousand players are vocal about their dislike of the lab, that's less than a fraction of one percent of the total players who are the silent majority. And the silent majority of any debate is typically indifferent or doesn't hold strong feelings either way. So please, get over yourself about your assumed "half" or "big number" of people who feel as you do. It doesn't exist. ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▒▒▒▒░░░░░ cipher_nemo ░░░░░▒▒▒▒ │ Waggro Level: ♠○○○○ │ 1244 ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ Last edited by cipher_nemo on Jan 28, 2017, 2:38:44 PM
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" okay you've made some progress, you now recognize the subjective. I for one enjoy lab, and wish more of the game had traps and obstacles like pits and such. More D&D like the better an APRG is. But I play games for the joy of gaming, not to get it over with as fast and easy as possible. "only 10% of players care about melee" - Aesop's Fox if he was a GGG dev
"when you die in this game, typically you're getting one shot, you're dieing in one frame; almost always" -Ben_ |
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Is this thread a joke? Labyrinth in poe is a disgrace. Anyone who took part in developing it should seriously consider retiring from game development industry. Lab is the most tedious, laggy and boring thing I have ever encountered in a game. Not to speak about how irritating it is running this crap and every moment of the run being bored and thinking 'What on earth did I do to deserve this punishment?' while playing a nice game. Reward? NONE! You can't seriously play the game without ascendancy points, it is a must have thing. What do you get in the end? Well nothing. Please, for god sake, ADMIT YOU SCREWED UP AND DELETE THE LABYRINTH FROM THE GAME PERMANENTLY AND IRREVERSIBLY.
and I've only died 39 times. (c) Libbritania ( tokimeki ). Last edited by ZL0J on Jan 28, 2017, 3:00:12 PM
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" Your enitire argument is ad populum and you can't even prove the populum part. Unlike Trump in middle 'merica just making unsupported claims is not going to win you any arguments. 600+ threads (referencing that one thread everyone knows about where the number of threads and posts are totled up to make an ad populum argument)? in a game that has hundreds of thousands of concurrent players a day? If 1 person per ten thousand made a thread about how much they hate lab we would probably have 2000-3000 threads. I wonder if even 1 in 20,000 hate lab enough to make a forum post? I mean granted some of the people who hate lab wont post because they feel embarassed that they suck at it or they have enough self respect to not want to sound entitled, or even they realize that not everything in the game has to cater to their tastes... So we have some tiny percentage of players constantly crying about having to do the lab 4 times per character. That's what this boils down to. Pay 3 chaos for a carry, tag along a free group, muddle through it while grumbling under your breath, but sack up ef up and have some self respect already. "only 10% of players care about melee" - Aesop's Fox if he was a GGG dev
"when you die in this game, typically you're getting one shot, you're dieing in one frame; almost always" -Ben_ |
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" another one that thinks reality stops at the tip of their nose. Do yourself a favor and get acquainted with the concept of subjectivity. You disliking something is not ultimate proof of it's failure. Frankly one of the more gratifying moments in this game for me was the first time I solo'ed lab. Now I look forward to doing it. But then I don't suck at games, and need them to be lawn mower simulators for me. Perhaps Temple run is more your speed of game? "only 10% of players care about melee" - Aesop's Fox if he was a GGG dev
"when you die in this game, typically you're getting one shot, you're dieing in one frame; almost always" -Ben_ |
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" You are a fly on the back of an elephant, lots of buzzing, but completely insignificant.   (sorry for the double "the" words in there, just churned it out quickly) ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▒▒▒▒░░░░░ cipher_nemo ░░░░░▒▒▒▒ │ Waggro Level: ♠○○○○ │ 1244 ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ Last edited by cipher_nemo on Jan 28, 2017, 3:13:33 PM
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Those charts appear to be:
"incomplete and half-arsed. A lot like the labyrinth/trials. ;) |
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It's an interesting piece, and it was good of GGG to post it. As a programming project, the lab was no doubt a fascinating challenge that took a lot of work to implement, and the devs are justifiably proud of what they accomplished.
But there's still not a single peep from GGG about what went into their decision to put the ascendancy points behind the lab. From the game design point of view, this was a dreadful decision --- for me, the most consequential decision GGG has made in the game. Despite that, GGG simply will not give any public discussion of why they chose to put crucial character development aspects behind something that "isn't universally beloved content." Absent any statements from GGG, I'll continue to believe the conspiracy theory that GGG did so (along with all the other absurdly good rewards) to make damn sure that people would run their baby. Proud member of the Vocal Minority
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" You don't even know the correct usage of ad populum. Ad populum is a fallacy when you count the opinions of majority to prove something into existence,or refer to something as valid because the majority believes it as true. It doesn't apply in situations of "do you like this?" Saying that lab is hated in a ratio of 1/20.000 players is just ignoring the truth. It is not a new boss that is challenging and some players die and get frustrated,it is a differtent type of gameplay that is sure to cause some splitting in playerbase. It could be a first person find the clues solve the riddle type of instance for all that i know that would cause the same split. In any kind of game when "mandatory" mechanics from other types of games are introduced you will have the same effect. I don't care if they keep the lab,if they ditch the lab,or whatever. I run it 4 times per character and that's it. Saying that i am 1/20.000 is just blocking your ears and go nah nah nah. |
