[3.17] For Slayer / Champion - Ngamahu Cyclone / Consecrated Path / Tectonic Slam

I see there are Ngamahu Axes on the market with +Weapon Range, is it necessary to have? And is it worth picking up if not?

"

HoboJingles wrote:

I see there are Ngamahu Axes on the market with +Weapon Range, is it necessary to have? And is it worth picking up if not?

+2 weapon range is just good to have. You don't need it at all to clear content.

But if you have lots of currency to spend, you can go for it. Just make sure the pDPS is at least 410 and comes with 10+% attack speed. :)

"

bipsylalapo wrote:

On this point, what's the ideal uncapped resistance then? Considering I'm going for Taste of Hate + Lion's Roar + Dying Sun, so no Wise Oak to spam for me.

And considering at endgame, most of the DPS comes from Cyclone and not Molten Burst, why is the additional projectile bonus from DS worth 7 ex for us?

Your ideal resistance cap should be 109 (110 for Fire on account of Barbarism). This gives you protection from EW in red maps (>79). You can go higher but you’re protecting yourself from rare and localized events, none of which matter in fights like Elder, Shaper. Both Shaper and Elder both employ cold and neither curse you so overcapping is futile. Running Purity of Ice to get your max up goes an incredibly long way. Stacking resistance above the 75 cap has tremendous returns. That’s of course if you care about EW on a tanky melee build. It’s completely fine to just run 76/75/75.

DS is likely the biggest waste of money in the author’s guide, not even sure why they listed it. 7ex to amplify a skill that brings almost nothing to the table. You’re priorities should be:

Xoph’s
Perfect Ngamahu (everything scales from your weapon, so the better it is, the more exponential gains you’ll see)
6L properly colored Bronn’s
Hysteria rolled Opals
Watcher’s Eye
Helmet enchant
Lion’s Roar

Then all the rest to flesh out the build. But the above will give you Shaper dps and you’ll melt maps. DS isn’t even on the radar. You could get 2 nicely rolled opals that will bring upwards of 20% more consistent damage to everything (Cyclone and MB) for the cost of DS, a flask that’s up periodically.

Also only about half of all MB projectiles actually hit. And given that they have a max range of 20 units, an average estimate of damage scaling through Point Blank only puts them at 1.3x. So even with that node, they don’t generate that much for the build. Go ahead and drop Iron Grip, it’s a waste of a point.

"

_Tiem wrote:

Your ideal resistance cap should be 109 (110 for Fire on account of Barbarism). This gives you protection from EW in red maps (>79). You can go higher but you’re protecting yourself from rare and localized events, none of which matter in fights like Elder, Shaper. Both Shaper and Elder both employ cold and neither curse you so overcapping is futile. Running Purity of Ice to get your max up goes an incredibly long way. Stacking resistance above the 75 cap has tremendous returns. That’s of course if you care about EW on a tanky melee build. It’s completely fine to just run 76/75/75.

If leveling is not a thing then you can definitely cap your resist at just 76/75/75.

76/75/75 works well for seasoned and skilled player but for new players coming to the game, they will see lots of frustration when they die randomly to elemental spell attacks when cursed by elemental weakness.

In fact, seasoned players across any builds will still recommend overcapping resistance for elemental weakness map for smoother game play so that they don't have to bother about the curse or re-rolling the map.

Yes you can run an anti-curse flask but there will be situations that your flask goes out of charges in a long fight. Rogue map bosses in a cursed map with 60% lesser life recovery will hit so hard.

"

_Tiem wrote:

DS is likely the biggest waste of money in the author’s guide, not even sure why they listed it. 7ex to amplify a skill that brings almost nothing to the table. You’re priorities should be:

Back when this build was created in patch 2.5 (1 year ago), Dying Sun was one of the best flasks for the build (Wise Oak was added in patch 2.6).

Even after the AOE nerf, it is still a great flask for all projectile damage. Is it mandatory? No it is not. Even budget flasks can kill Shaper.

But for players pushing for min/max gears, they can go for the flask.

And don't forget, Dying Sun is great vs Uber Atziri who does fire damage.

"

_Tiem wrote:

Xoph’s
Perfect Ngamahu (everything scales from your weapon, so the better it is, the more exponential gains you’ll see)
6L properly colored Bronn’s
Hysteria rolled Opals
Watcher’s Eye
Helmet enchant
Lion’s Roar

Then all the rest to flesh out the build. But the above will give you Shaper dps and you’ll melt maps. DS isn’t even on the radar. You could get 2 nicely rolled opals that will bring upwards of 20% more consistent damage to everything (Cyclone and MB) for the cost of DS, a flask that’s up periodically.

No unique flask brings consistent damage to the build since they only last 4.8 to 6 seconds. And flasks will tend to be the last thing you work on for upgrading (except Wise Oak and Lion's Roar as they are relatively cheap to acquire).

As I wrote above, for players going for min/max on their character, Dying Sun is an option.

Can the currency be better spend else where? Yes for certain. But over 20% of damage gain on Molten Balls isn't nothing.

"

_Tiem wrote:

Also only about half of all MB projectiles actually hit. And given that they have a max range of 20 units, an average estimate of damage scaling through Point Blank only puts them at 1.3x. So even with that node, they don’t generate that much for the build. Go ahead and drop Iron Grip, it’s a waste of a point.

Molten Burst has Concentrated gem linked so the max range is 20 x 0.7 = 14 units.

Most balls damage fall within 40% to 50% damage gain (and not 30% as you mentioned) for point blank as shown in the picture below:



You pretty much negate the fact that Molten Balls have 2 damage components - single target DPS (target they hit) and area DPS (surrounding targets where ball lands).

The area DPS is higher than the single target if you use a DPS calculator. Even though the balls don't land on a target, the AOE damage they deal will still apply if the enemy is within damage zone.

Un-specing Iron Grip is bad advice. You are throwing away 10% damage of each molten ball away for just 1 skill point. Don't forget, the more strength your character has, the more damage Iron Grip brings to the balls.

Try switching Ngamahu to a rare axe with similar damage range and fight Uber Izaro at level 70. You will definitely notice the damage difference Molten Burst brings.

In fact, just compare a rare axe with similar damage against Ngamahu at level 55 to clear A1 to A10. The clear speed difference is significant.

Just look at Molten Strike builds out there, why are they focusing on getting as many projectiles as possible? They are doing that because each additional projectile add significant damage to the build.

So stop saying Molten Burst only contribute a small part to the damage of the build and mislead other players, especially newcomers.

looking to upgrade my gears..any thoughts on which items should be prioritized to upgrade...thank you and great guide again

"

kira1414 wrote:

Molten Burst has Concentrated gem linked so the max range is 20 x 0.7 = 14 units.

Most balls damage fall within 40% to 50% damage gain (and not 30% as you mentioned) for point blank as shown in the picture below:

[...]

So stop saying Molten Burst only contribute a small part to the damage of the build and mislead other players, especially newcomers.

It's true. Just because you have your head buried in the sand doesn't make it false.

On my build, which is pretty close to as perfect as you can get (unless I spent more coin on mirror worthy gear), my Cyclone dps is 420k. Each MB projectile is 33k. (These values are all against Shaper.) There are 7 projectiles for a total damage of 37k*7=259k. That is if all land and all have the max buff from PB. Looks amazing right? Wow, that's about 60% more damage!

But wait, there's only a 20% chance of them proc'ing. So if Cyclone is doing 420k damage at an attack rate of 4 (it's actually 3.85), then you'll see it proc once. And there's no real world scenario where every projectile hits. Sure you may get a good spread of 50% or the enemy may up and move and all of them miss. I've seen this in lots of boss fights, especially Shaper who is quite mobile unless he's channeling. So let's be liberal and say half hit (I suspect that's actually pretty accurate).

So that number goes down to about 125k per 420k. So let's say MB brings 25-30%. Seems good right? Still good. 30% more damage is pretty good. Now let's see what DS brings:

(15-25)% increased Area of Effect during Flask Effect
2 additional Projectiles during Flask Effect

Firstly, 25% iAOE will push MB up 1 AOE Radius. GGG nerfed the way AOE works and how each percent interacts with itself waaaaay back in something like 2.4. AOE is pretty worthless where most of the AOE is baked into each skill, so stacking it outside of the gem iAOE returns very little, especially from what it did before the big AOE reworking.

Secondly, adding 2 additional projectiles. If we opt for a realistic account, that means only 1 will land. But let's be liberal and say both will. Now you have 5*37k, which equals 185k (up from 125k). So you're effectively adding 60k to your total damage of 565k. Which is about 11% more damage on the whole. So for 7ex, you are getting a small window of 11% more damage.

Adding hysteria rolls to your ring (Gain 10% of Physical Damage as Extra Fire Damage) brings about 5% more. That's 5% more to not only your MB projectiles, which let's say are still 30% (I'm still not buying that many hit but let's say for the sake of the argument they do) but also to Cyclone, which makes up the other 70%. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but 5% of 70% and 5 of 30% is still more than 11% of 30%. And that's 100% uptime. Wowa, lots of percentages.

Having them max rolled Opals brings that number up to around 9%. That's 9% to the entire build. Again 100% uptime.

So yeah man. It's not that DS does nothing. It's just that for how expensive it is, it should be last on the list of things to get. Pretty much like for the guy running Cyclone that has everything.

Putting your ex to maximum use. Go down my list and be happy. Or waste your money and get stupid flasks that bring next to nothing to the build. So yeah, math disagrees with you. I disagree with you.

*drops mic

PS: lol

"

fentowninya wrote:

looking to upgrade my gears..any thoughts on which items should be prioritized to upgrade...thank you and great guide again

Your gloves and boots can have more life rolls on them.

Check out the flasks section for recommended setup. You can start off with the budget version.

I would replace your Ancient Globe, Whispering Glare and Whispering Sphere jewel. The lightning damage on them are only at 50% effectiveness.

Check out Abyssal jewels section for preferred rolls.

Consider getting Watcher's Eye with Extra fire damage and check out FAQ section for the flowchart showing the aura setup to run.

_____________________________________________________________________________

"

_Tiem wrote:

It's true. Just because you have your head buried in the sand doesn't make it false.

Spoiler

On my build, which is pretty close to as perfect as you can get (unless I spent more coin on mirror worthy gear), my Cyclone dps is 420k. Each MB projectile is 33k. (These values are all against Shaper.) There are 7 projectiles for a total damage of 37k*7=259k. That is if all land and all have the max buff from PB. Looks amazing right? Wow, that's about 60% more damage!

But wait, there's only a 20% chance of them proc'ing. So if Cyclone is doing 420k damage at an attack rate of 4 (it's actually 3.85), then you'll see it proc once. And there's no real world scenario where every projectile hits. Sure you may get a good spread of 50% or the enemy may up and move and all of them miss. I've seen this in lots of boss fights, especially Shaper who is quite mobile unless he's channeling. So let's be liberal and say half hit (I suspect that's actually pretty accurate).

So that number goes down to about 125k per 420k. So let's say MB brings 25-30%. Seems good right? Still good. 30% more damage is pretty good. Now let's see what DS brings:

(15-25)% increased Area of Effect during Flask Effect
2 additional Projectiles during Flask Effect

Firstly, 25% iAOE will push MB up 1 AOE Radius. GGG nerfed the way AOE works and how each percent interacts with itself waaaaay back in something like 2.4. AOE is pretty worthless where most of the AOE is baked into each skill, so stacking it outside of the gem iAOE returns very little, especially from what it did before the big AOE reworking.

Secondly, adding 2 additional projectiles. If we opt for a realistic account, that means only 1 will land. But let's be liberal and say both will. Now you have 5*37k, which equals 185k (up from 125k). So you're effectively adding 60k to your total damage of 565k. Which is about 11% more damage on the whole. So for 7ex, you are getting a small window of 11% more damage.

Adding hysteria rolls to your ring (Gain 10% of Physical Damage as Extra Fire Damage) brings about 5% more. That's 5% more to not only your MB projectiles, which let's say are still 30% (I'm still not buying that many hit but let's say for the sake of the argument they do) but also to Cyclone, which makes up the other 70%. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but 5% of 70% and 5 of 30% is still more than 11% of 30%. And that's 100% uptime. Wowa, lots of percentages.

Having them max rolled Opals brings that number up to around 9%. That's 9% to the entire build. Again 100% uptime.

So yeah man. It's not that DS does nothing. It's just that for how expensive it is, it should be last on the list of things to get. Pretty much like for the guy running Cyclone that has everything.

Putting your ex to maximum use. Go down my list and be happy. Or waste your money and get stupid flasks that bring next to nothing to the build. So yeah, math disagrees with you. I disagree with you.

*drops mic

PS: lol

You are paraphrasing me out of context and what is that lol for?

I have never said Dying Sun is at the top of item list to obtain. In fact I have said:

"

Even after the AOE nerf, it is still a great flask for all projectile damage. Is it mandatory? No it is not. Even budget flasks can kill Shaper.

But for players pushing for min/max gears, they can go for the flask.

and

"

No unique flask brings consistent damage to the build since they only last 4.8 to 6 seconds. And flasks will tend to be the last thing you work on for upgrading (except Wise Oak and Lion's Roar as they are relatively cheap to acquire).

As I wrote above, for players going for min/max on their character, Dying Sun is an option.

Can the currency be better spend else where? Yes for certain. But over 20% of damage gain on Molten Balls isn't nothing.

and the "nothing" above is in reply to you saying Dying Sun brings "almost nothing" to the build.




This build offers a progression for players to become stronger as they gear their character towards end game.

At the start of player journey, Molten Burst will account for 70% (or more) of the total damage. As player progress towards end game, it will scale down to 30% to 40% range.

The amount of currencies needed to push Cyclone to 70% of total damage (end game) is not something average players can easily achieve.

Molten Burst is definitely not nothing to the build.




On Shaper fight (same goes to Uber Atziri since she hardly moves), most (if not all) of the balls will land on (or near) him since he is a stationary boss.

This video clearly shows the above point:

"

https://youtu.be/F-hX84phZzM?t=124

I also don't understand whats the argument on Opal rings and why you keep emphasizing them.

If you are arguing from the point that the currency spent on Dying Sun can be better spent on Opal rings, I have never disagree with you. I have even said flasks should be the last item on the upgrade list (see above quote).

I have never said that going for Opal rings is not recommended.

In fact, the guide (written 1 year ago) specifically points out to Opal and Steel rings.

With patch 3.1, Opal don't necessary scale better than Steel ring any more. Especially with the introduction of Watcher's Eye.




And whats up with your high and elitist style of replying other players and my posts?

I created this guide 1 year ago when Ngamahu was first introduced and the main purpose is to help other players to enjoy POE (which is why I am still here helping new players out).

So if you want to mock and ridicule other people, this thread do not welcome you.

But if you are here to help out other players, I will definitely welcome and appreciate it.




Lastly, if your point is valid, I will accept (just like what I did to Change of Ignite gem in Ngamahu axe, and I even credited you in the guide) with open arms.

But when you are saying things that can mislead other players, I will stand to correct.

"

_Tiem wrote:

"

kira1414 wrote:

Molten Burst has Concentrated gem linked so the max range is 20 x 0.7 = 14 units.

Most balls damage fall within 40% to 50% damage gain (and not 30% as you mentioned) for point blank as shown in the picture below:

[...]

So stop saying Molten Burst only contribute a small part to the damage of the build and mislead other players, especially newcomers.

It's true. Just because you have your head buried in the sand doesn't make it false.

On my build, which is pretty close to as perfect as you can get (unless I spent more coin on mirror worthy gear), my Cyclone dps is 420k. Each MB projectile is 33k. (These values are all against Shaper.) There are 7 projectiles for a total damage of 37k*7=259k. That is if all land and all have the max buff from PB. Looks amazing right? Wow, that's about 60% more damage!

But wait, there's only a 20% chance of them proc'ing. So if Cyclone is doing 420k damage at an attack rate of 4 (it's actually 3.85), then you'll see it proc once. And there's no real world scenario where every projectile hits. Sure you may get a good spread of 50% or the enemy may up and move and all of them miss. I've seen this in lots of boss fights, especially Shaper who is quite mobile unless he's channeling. So let's be liberal and say half hit (I suspect that's actually pretty accurate).

So that number goes down to about 125k per 420k. So let's say MB brings 25-30%. Seems good right? Still good. 30% more damage is pretty good. Now let's see what DS brings:

(15-25)% increased Area of Effect during Flask Effect
2 additional Projectiles during Flask Effect

Firstly, 25% iAOE will push MB up 1 AOE Radius. GGG nerfed the way AOE works and how each percent interacts with itself waaaaay back in something like 2.4. AOE is pretty worthless where most of the AOE is baked into each skill, so stacking it outside of the gem iAOE returns very little, especially from what it did before the big AOE reworking.

Secondly, adding 2 additional projectiles. If we opt for a realistic account, that means only 1 will land. But let's be liberal and say both will. Now you have 5*37k, which equals 185k (up from 125k). So you're effectively adding 60k to your total damage of 565k. Which is about 11% more damage on the whole. So for 7ex, you are getting a small window of 11% more damage.

Adding hysteria rolls to your ring (Gain 10% of Physical Damage as Extra Fire Damage) brings about 5% more. That's 5% more to not only your MB projectiles, which let's say are still 30% (I'm still not buying that many hit but let's say for the sake of the argument they do) but also to Cyclone, which makes up the other 70%. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but 5% of 70% and 5 of 30% is still more than 11% of 30%. And that's 100% uptime. Wowa, lots of percentages.

Having them max rolled Opals brings that number up to around 9%. That's 9% to the entire build. Again 100% uptime.

So yeah man. It's not that DS does nothing. It's just that for how expensive it is, it should be last on the list of things to get. Pretty much like for the guy running Cyclone that has everything.

Putting your ex to maximum use. Go down my list and be happy. Or waste your money and get stupid flasks that bring next to nothing to the build. So yeah, math disagrees with you. I disagree with you.

*drops mic

PS: lol

kira has provided the community with a fun and effective build as well as an active dialog for players and you are commenting like a child. It's clear that you have valuable input, but please try not to be so abrasive as it is distasteful to readers.

I just started poe earlier this month and after I couldn't find any fun in spectre witch I switched to this one and am having a lot of fun. My gear currently looks like this (not really fleshed out yet):



I am 100c away from Xoph's. I feel like I am lacking armor, I only have about 1800. Where should I get armor on? After Xoph's what should be my next goal?

"

Aeres wrote:

I just started poe earlier this month and after I couldn't find any fun in spectre witch I switched to this one and am having a lot of fun. My gear currently looks like this (not really fleshed out yet):

Spoiler

I am away 100c away from Xoph's. I feel like I am lacking armor, I only have about 1800. Where should I get armor on? After Xoph's what should be my next goal?

You can skill Iron Reflex on tree, its just need 1 SP anyway. You can respect it later after you got some armors on your other gears

@kira1414 Just a suggestion, maybe you could sort the Lab Enchantments from the most useful one 1st ?

Also why you put added fire on cyclone setup at scion guide, instead of fort. You put fort in leap slam.