[3.17] For Slayer / Champion - Ngamahu Cyclone / Consecrated Path / Tectonic Slam

Favourite build last league, favourite build this league. Even better now with the new items!

Question for any1 that's done the math: how much of a DPS upgrade if Xoph's + xoph's skill build compared to Impresence/Avatar?

What shaper DPS on cyclone/molten burst in PoB should I shoot for if I want to try him? I dont want to rip the currency if I'm going to be dead in the water.



Also have a 24% added phys damage watcher's eye.

Think I can take him?

"

kira1414 wrote:

Not trying to be rude but you don't seem to have tested out the damage difference using the pastebin I pasted.

Dude I did! Ok check it. All your gear. Disabled everything but covered in ash (took off blood rage too as you won't be getting the frenzy charges on Shaper or his guardians anyway). Cleaned everything up so it's not so sloppy. Took out fortify and added fire pen and added fire. Now go select one or the other. Fire pen kicks out 297k, while added fire kicks out 286k. Fire pen brings +34.3% while added fire only brings +29.5% more damage.

I also cleaned up your tree in general. You get about 300 more life and a bit more damage. All you have to do is drop 10% increased leech from the VV cluster. You also get less mana consumption so you don't have to run with the mana flask. Tireless is a pretty kick ass node for this build as we run very close to the hilt when it comes to mana. Primevil is a waste I'm telling you. Numbers don't lie. Also take Cloth and Chain if you have to, it's waaayyy better than Diamond Skin as it gives you 36% increased evasion AND armor on top of the 15% resists. While DS only gives 15% armor and the resits. It's a no-brainer. Or you can drop CC entirely, roll cold and lightning on your boots, put one point back into 30 int and then you'd have one more node to kick around. If you put it into 5% life, you'd have 6720, which isn't so bad. I don't know why you rolled fire resist on your boots. You have way too much fire resist. If you take that off and roll int, you can save that node one tree and put it to better use. You'll still be 43% over which takes care of EW on red maps. You also don't need Sybil's anymore with the changes to reflect. I have 2 opal rings and I don't even know reflect exists anymore.

Here's the link: https://pastebin.com/dESYeKNJ

"

GraissE wrote:

Thank you for your answer!

Here is the second ring:

The main problem is that i need some int to wear the gear and gems...maybe i should sacrifice a node or two for this?

The optimal set up uses one 30 int node unless you get god gear. There is no way around it unless you get T1 int rolls on both your rings or your boots. You can't get them on your gloves because you need 2 slots for resists and the remaining suffix goes to attack speed. So you have to juggle it on your boots or ring slots and boots will be off base if they roll with T1 (will be ES gear) so you'll lose out on some defense. So it comes down to rings which are crazy hard to get as you need resists on them too and of course lots of damage (nicely rolled opal rings bring a crapton of deeps).

My previous question was dumb, as it was in the FAQ.

However, another question: I'm running Impresence and Avatar and just got myself a Watcher's with just phys to fire. However it shows no increase in tooltip while running Anger for some reason? Going to doublecheck in PoB.

edit: PoB also shows no increase in dps at all. Is it because with Ngamahu + Avatar you already convert 100% and since it's not "extra" it doesn't add anything? If so, it would be good to not recommend Watcher's Eye with phys convert on front page while running Avatar (I may have missed it somewhere, but did not see anything relating to that so far).

@Miffy23

You want "gain % physical damage as extra fire damage." Not converted.

One of these

http://poe.trade/search/arasuharikahin

"

mysoggyknee wrote:

@Miffy23

You want "gain % physical damage as extra fire damage." Not converted.

One of these

http://poe.trade/search/arasuharikahin

I am a moron that can't read.
Thanks!

Hey guys is the helm enchants listed by top being priority. I have both a 15 cyclone attack speed and 40 increased cyclone damage helm which is better?

"

Your character is hidden so I don't know how your tree look like. Gear wise, they are pretty decent. Rings can definitely get an upgrade but I would keep Wrath Knuckle ring. It is hard to replace that fella.

If you are adventurous, you can try rolling 3R2B1G on your Bronn (can be very costly).

And for leveling, definitely use Enfeeble instead of Flammability or Elemental Weakness. It gives you 30% more effective life pool. Which is huge.

Thanks for the tips. Enfeeble is a big deal i somehow overlooked. Will probably use it to push to 95. I have fixed my tree by buying two rings with int. Still not sure if i should try to incorporate vaal pact. Is 3R2B1G on Bronn a straight up improvement, or just another flavour? Might go after that as a chase item. Thanks again for putting this much work into the build.

"

GraissE wrote:

Hello guys!

Working hard on trying to clear all the game contents.

Could you please let me know what I could do to improve my build?

I will not be able to afford the Xoph amulet yet, so I went on the avatar of fire node.

Here is my gear:

Spoiler

I have tried to 6L another Bronn for a long time now but no luck just yet!

Thank you a lot for the guide, really helped me understanding how this game works

I will hopefully kill Shaper one day :)

Your gears are generally good for Avatar of Fire skill tree.

Besides what @Absolutista mentioned on the flasks, and what you already know, your next biggest upgrade will be 6L.

So the next item I would aim at will be to get that 6L with the right color. :)

If you are using Xoph's Blood, to get enough int to use the gems (Concentrated need 111, Enfeeble 13 needs 120+), you can drop some damage for +30 int node (Ancestral Knowledge) + a 40 int ring.

Alternatively, get 70+ int from gears (e.g. rings and jewels).

If you are not using Xoph's Blood, you just need a 30+ int ring to cover for the gems requirement.

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"

frenzul wrote:

Hey dudes. I just came back to PoE when this league started. It had been a while. I always just start playing the game with no build in mind and go the way that loot tempts me.

Surprisingly this time, I ended up doing well and I'm using cyclone/warchief/sunder for the first time. Long story short, I found this build, dropped sunder and picked up Ngamahu when I hit Act 10.

So now I am level 83 (my record is a level 84 essence drainer) and the last time I died was on the Act 10 boss. It's really fun, I have just been using upgrades that drop in T1-5 maps and it feels like butter cutting through mobs. I can pop all abysses I see at once, strongboxes, whatever. It's amazing.

Anyway - I just wanted say thank you even though I've half-assed it, as I slowly convert and use your build as a guide.

After picking through it a bit more while I'm at work today, I realized I think I actually got Bronn's to drop last night and I just tossed it in the bank not noticing it's a key item here. That will be fun to maybe work on while I map and try to socket something myself for the first time ever. Now I just need to figure out how to raise my damage a bit, although the 40k or so tooltip I'm at right now is far beyond anything I've ever played.

Spoiler

Here's some things I found so far on my own that I think fit the build ok.

Also confirmed, I have this sitting in my stash from last night lol..

Thanks for sharing your experience with the build. Looking at your skill tree, I can see what you meant by converting to the tree listed in guide. :)

Surgebinders are not suitable for the build. Tombfist will work better when you socket a murderous abyssal jewel into it as it gives you intimidate aura.

Otherwise, follow the recommended sections in the guide for gearing. :)

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"

Miffy23 wrote:

Favourite build last league, favourite build this league. Even better now with the new items!

Question for any1 that's done the math: how much of a DPS upgrade if Xoph's + xoph's skill build compared to Impresence/Avatar?

Using POB to compare:

No flask no buff DPS on Shaper:

"

Impresence + Avatar of Fire + Anger + Flammability + Watcher's Eye (extra fire): 231735

"

Xoph's Blood + Anger + Watcher's eye (extra fire): 261221

With buffs and flasks, Xoph's Blood with Watcher's Eye will pull way ahead.

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"

dperls wrote:

What shaper DPS on cyclone/molten burst in PoB should I shoot for if I want to try him? I dont want to rip the currency if I'm going to be dead in the water.

Spoiler

Also have a 24% added phys damage watcher's eye.

Think I can take him?

If your in hideout Cyclone dps with Concentrated is around 80+K, you should be able to take out Shaper. :)

And of course, the more dps you have on that, the easier it will be on Shaper. I was clearing him with 120+K cyclone damage back in 2.6 using SSF gears.

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"

_Tiem wrote:

Dude I did! Ok check it. All your gear. Disabled everything but covered in ash (took off blood rage too as you won't be getting the frenzy charges on Shaper or his guardians anyway). Cleaned everything up so it's not so sloppy.

Took out fortify and added fire pen and added fire. Now go select one or the other. Fire pen kicks out 297k, while added fire kicks out 286k. Fire pen brings +34.3% while added fire only brings +29.5% more damage.

I also cleaned up your tree in general. You get about 300 more life and a bit more damage. All you have to do is drop 10% increased leech from the VV cluster. You also get less mana consumption so you don't have to run with the mana flask. Tireless is a pretty kick ass node for this build as we run very close to the hilt when it comes to mana.

Primevil is a waste I'm telling you. Numbers don't lie.

Also take Cloth and Chain if you have to, it's waaayyy better than Diamond Skin as it gives you 36% increased evasion AND armor on top of the 15% resists. While DS only gives 15% armor and the resits. It's a no-brainer. Or you can drop CC entirely, roll cold and lightning on your boots, put one point back into 30 int and then you'd have one more node to kick around. If you put it into 5% life, you'd have 6720, which isn't so bad.

I don't know why you rolled fire resist on your boots. You have way too much fire resist. If you take that off and roll int, you can save that node one tree and put it to better use. You'll still be 43% over which takes care of EW on red maps. You also don't need Sybil's anymore with the changes to reflect. I have 2 opal rings and I don't even know reflect exists anymore.

Here's the link: https://pastebin.com/dESYeKNJ

Yes. This is what I want to see when it comes to debate. Facts and figures. Having a pastebin pasted makes it easier for the discussion. :)

A little history to the pastebin that I have used for this debate, it is the one listed in the guide, created in 2.6 SSF league (outdated by now).

Back then, reflect is a thing, thus Sibyl ring. And this ring has since been removed from the recommended section in the guide when 3.1 hits.

Diamond Skin was picked because of The Red Dream jewel that I was using in 2.6. I see that you have that removed from the pastebin you posted. That is fine.

The skill tree in that pastebin was also not following the latest version listed in the guide.

In terms of gear rolls, pretty much sharing things around my characters so we don't have to go into that. In SSF, there is no room for luxury when it comes to gearing. ;)

And I didn't bother to update that pastebin to fully reflect 3.1 changes since fundamentally it works the same.

Now lets get back to facts and figures, using your pastebin. Switching between Added Fire and Fire Penetration as the 6th gem for Cyclone.

"

Here is the stats from your pastebin with Added Fire as 6th gem (no flask, just covered in ash):

Spoiler

Shaper DPS with Double Anger Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Extra Fire Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Fire Pen. Watcher's Eye

"

From the above, you are right that fire penetration version of Watcher's Eye is ahead of extra fire version.

So now things get very interesting if I replace Added Fire with Fire Penetration. It isn't what you had stated.

"

Here is the stats from your pastebin with Fire Penetration as 6th gem (no flask, just covered in ash):

Spoiler

Shaper DPS with Double Anger Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Extra Fire Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Fire Pen. Watcher's Eye

"

From the above, it shows clearly that extra fire version of Watcher's Eye pull way ahead of fire penetration version.

Now, for science, I imported the latest 3.1 Primeval Force skill tree into your pastebin.

"

Here is the stats without any flask active (Primeval Force provides more damage when you have at least 1 active flask):

Spoiler

Shaper DPS with Double Anger Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Extra Fire Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Fire Pen. Watcher's Eye

"

From the above, Primeval Force or not, extra fire version of Watcher's Eye still pulls way ahead.

For even more Science, now lets use a more damage focused Primeval Force skill tree, also no active flasks.

"

Here is the stats without any flask active

Spoiler

Shaper DPS with Double Anger Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Extra Fire Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Fire Pen. Watcher's Eye

"

Once again, extra fire version of Watcher's Eye pulls further ahead.

Here is the pastebin based on the one you pasted, with 2 x imported 3.1 Primeval Force skill trees.

"

https://pastebin.com/uxuhcTkm

TLDR; Stats

Conclusion, if you can only afford a single anger roll on Watcher's Eye, go for:

Gain #% of Physical Damage as Extra Fire Damage while affected by Anger

Btw, what prejudice do you have with Primeval Force? By any chance related to Star Wars?

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"

Miffy23 wrote:

My previous question was dumb, as it was in the FAQ.

However, another question: I'm running Impresence and Avatar and just got myself a Watcher's with just phys to fire. However it shows no increase in tooltip while running Anger for some reason? Going to doublecheck in PoB.

edit: PoB also shows no increase in dps at all. Is it because with Ngamahu + Avatar you already convert 100% and since it's not "extra" it doesn't add anything? If so, it would be good to not recommend Watcher's Eye with phys convert on front page while running Avatar (I may have missed it somewhere, but did not see anything relating to that so far).

If you are using a conversion Watcher's Eye, it doesn't add any damage because you are already at 100% conversion with Ngamahu + Avatar of Fire.

And converstion Watcher was never recommended. Only extra fire is. You can see that under recommended gears and FAQ. :)

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"

Speaker4TheDead wrote:

Hey guys is the helm enchants listed by top being priority. I have both a 15 cyclone attack speed and 40 increased cyclone damage helm which is better?

On Shaper, Increased attack speed helm enchant gives the most damage (slightly more than cyclone damage).

But personally, I will go for Cyclone damage because you can get attack speed from jewels and rings and it scales better.

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"

Pred8oar wrote:

Thanks for the tips. Enfeeble is a big deal i somehow overlooked. Will probably use it to push to 95. I have fixed my tree by buying two rings with int. Still not sure if i should try to incorporate vaal pact. Is 3R2B1G on Bronn a straight up improvement, or just another flavour? Might go after that as a chase item. Thanks again for putting this much work into the build.

Yes. 3R2B1G damage boost is significant, but costly to roll on Bronn. :(