We are seeing first hand why GGG needs to step in..

If that's true and i assume it is, it's still not within XyZ authority to act on it, since he isn't a gm and doesn't enforce fundamental game rules.

He's a third party providing a service, as long as he doesn't have some kind of "follow these rules when using my site" he shouldn't act like he is.

If he explicitly makes rules to use his site, then i see no issue with this behavior.(removing players in violation of those rules)
But as is, people are using means allowed within a free market system to gain advantage and being punished for it.(ignoring the fact it's immoral and a dick move from a personal perspective)

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

If that's true and i assume it is, it's still not within XyZ authority to act on it, since he isn't a gm and doesn't enforce fundamental game rules.

He's a third party providing a service, as long as he doesn't have some kind of "follow these rules when using my site" he shouldn't act like he is.

If he explicitly makes rules to use his site, then i see no issue with this behavior.(removing players in violation of those rules)
But as is, people are using means allowed within a free market system to gain advantage and being punished for it.(ignoring the fact it's immoral and a dick move from a personal perspective)

Peace,

-Boem-

There was nothing that says you couldn't scam using Cadiro. People got banned/locked for it.


Consistency is a major issue here. XYZ banning people from his site for violating rules would be akin to PvP. You were an asshole, you get blacklisted. Welcome to being an asshole. If you want to allow scamming, you have to allow people to fight back. Otherwise, just solve the issue by just not allowing scamming of any kind, at all, and problem solved.

I'm not disagreeing a lack of consistency isn't a major concern, just addressing the issue at hand.

People aren't violating any rules currently, just being pricks/dicks. If people got locked/banned for such behavior i find it well within their rights to address this and claim a lack of out-lined rules is to blame and not their personal constitution.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

I'm not disagreeing a lack of consistency isn't a major concern, just addressing the issue at hand.

People aren't violating any rules currently, just being pricks/dicks. If people got locked/banned for such behavior i find it well within their rights to address this and claim a lack of out-lined rules is to blame and not their personal constitution.

Peace,

-Boem-

GGG can ban you for any reason, including being a dick. Making 40+ fake listings just to price manipulating isn't just being a dick, it's being a monumental dick, akin to being on 7+ hours and scamming people with cadiro deals.


Also, when it starts to cost Chris Wilson and his team negative press and their bottom line, that's when it really starts to become a problem. In all honesty, they just need to have a specific rule that states that trade scamming of any kind will have zero tolerance and all of this nonsense stops. You hammer people with a 1 day ban as a warning, then escalate from there. Problem solved.

"

_Saranghaeyo_ wrote:

"

Boem wrote:

If that's true and i assume it is, it's still not within XyZ authority to act on it, since he isn't a gm and doesn't enforce fundamental game rules.

"

Boem wrote:

He's a third party providing a service, as long as he doesn't have some kind of "follow these rules when using my site" he shouldn't act like he is.

So if xyz banned you from poe.trade tomorrow you would be fine with that, correct?

Peace,

-Boem-

"

vio wrote:

"

almostdead wrote:

But claiming that he cannot do whatever he wants with a site he has created himself and owns is completely wrong in my opinion.

valid opinion of yours, i would be interested if you're still up to it when you got excluded from trade because some people claimed you're a scammer?

whatever, eventually it all depends on whether ggg binds the usage of the api data on open access to the processed data for everyone.

If xyz decided to remove my listings from his page/remove my access from his page it would of course suck, but it would be his call and there is noone to complain about it.

Also, important to note that poe.trade did exist before the data from api. Anyway as long as the api is public it doesn't matter.

"

vio wrote:

the question is, is he bound to equally provide access for all users who use the trading tab ingame, independently on what they do ingame otherwise?

he isn't bound to anything.

"

Boem wrote:

If that's true and i assume it is, it's still not within XyZ authority to act on it, since he isn't a gm and doesn't enforce fundamental game rules.

He's a third party providing a service, as long as he doesn't have some kind of "follow these rules when using my site" he shouldn't act like he is.

If he explicitly makes rules to use his site, then i see no issue with this behavior.(removing players in violation of those rules)

It's his site, he can do whatever he wants with it. If today he decides he removes all unique items and all players whose account was created after 2016 he can freely do so. It might not be "proper" thing to do and it isn't probabaly good for the site but claiming he needs some explicit rules or that it isn't within his authority is frankly bullshit.

"

_Saranghaeyo_ wrote:

The one concept you seem to not be able to grasp is that this guy, who by your admission is third party, is in fact allowed to do whatever he wants. We're all at his mercy and his judgment. That isn't a secret.

"

almostdead wrote:

It's his site, he can do whatever he wants with it. If today he decides he removes all unique items and all players whose account was created after 2016 he can freely do so. It might not be "proper" thing to do and it isn't probabaly good for the site but claiming he needs some explicit rules or that it isn't within his authority is frankly bullshit.

Calm your tits [Removed by Support].

I'm obviously addressing this from an overarching perspective projecting to the future.

It has nothing to do with me not understanding Xyz's power position in this whole matter, i'm just advising against letting personal opinion and bias dictate how that power is utilized.

It's not that he "cant" do whatever he wants, it's that he should think carefully before exploiting his position and doing so.

I wouldn't find anything wrong with his behavior if for example he had a moral code of conduct for utilizing the service he provides. Which in my opinion seems like a solid way to solve the power conflict issue i am seeing.

Peace,

-Boem-

What is happening there isn't a scam, how should it be, because those Orbs are still traded regulary.

If you agree on a trade that is 1ex to 1c than this isn't a scam because you agreed to the deal. This is a manipulation of the market and actually I already benefit from it, because it isn't just a manipulation for few, it is for many, since it actually drives the prices for exalts down massively.

All this is is essentially a change in pricing, which happens exspecially during the start of a league and if you just hop on board you can benefit from it. Because I got multipe exalts already for very low prices, which is kinda cool, because the sellers of other items like 6l chests and stuff don't react quick enough so you can sell a bunch of chaos for cheap exalts and buy expensive stuff with that. In the long run the prices for Disfavour or 6l chests etc. will go up accordingly but in the short time you can just cash in.

The only ones that are hurt by that are RMTers, because if the price of exalts drop buying them for actual money is less appealing. Unless they make exalts cheaper to buy as well which loses them profit.

"

Except plenty of people did, as evidenced to the fact that people were posting regarding why their account was locked towards the end of Perandus league. This is the issue, GGG isn't being very consistent. You allow scamming, but once it gets out of control you step in, but then you also don't allow people to name/shame others. It makes absolutely zero sense.

Yeah and that is fine, because it was a trade. If one party offers the service but the other isn't paying this is a scam. If someone posts deals he never intends to actually do just to manipulate the prices it is not a scam. It would be a scam if he wants to buy exalts for 80 and only pays 50, which isn't the case because people still have to agree to an actual trade.

And they started punishing trade scams back when there wasn't even a trade window, they didn't want to do it at first, but they ultimately gave in. And Perandus scams are trading without a trade window.

Also if he bans people from his site he doesn't need any rules. If he wants to ban people because he doesn't like their name he is free to do so. GGG doesn't have anything to do with his site, however they might react on this if it goes too far, because he could technically team up with some people and help them get rich by banning competition. But I assume GGG does monitor how those sites behave or maybe he even got in contact with them about it.

Also GGG doesn't ban out of the blue sky. If they do so they usually make a point before hand that they dislike certain activities. In Perandus this wasn't actually necessary because it is essentially the same as scamming on kill services. The only thing they don't care about is scamming if you trade between leagues because they don't really want that to happen. But again this isn't scamming, it might be dickish, but since there is never an agreement to trade there is nothing you can break.

"

Boem wrote:

I'm obviously addressing this from an overarching perspective projecting to the future.

It has nothing to do with me not understanding Xyz's power position in this whole matter, i'm just advising against letting personal opinion and bias dictate how that power is utilized.

It's not that he "cant" do whatever he wants, it's that he should think carefully before exploiting his position and doing so.

I wouldn't find anything wrong with his behavior if for example he had a moral code of conduct for utilizing the service he provides. Which in my opinion seems like a solid way to solve the power conflict issue i am seeing.

Peace,

-Boem-

Ultimately XYZ is improving his site by doing this, and if there was an alternative that curated the posted deals more carefully to remove chronically afk/dnd/price manipulating sellers I would use it and never look back. He is probably aware that other people agree or maybe he just tried to buy a cheap item and got annoyed that all the prices were fake or unavailable. I agree that having some sort of guidelines would be ideal though.

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