I've come to realize I really dont like lab, trials and enchant system even one bit

I never found much enjoyment in any aspect of lab - all the way from trials, to the actual lab itself, to trying to get the right enchant for my gear.

I really did my best never to allow myself to think lowly of lab, but tonight it dawned on me. I realized I fundamentally do not enjoy it at all and can never wait to be done with it and just get it over with. It is nothing more than a nuisance that i cannot wait to be rid of so i can forget about it.

Particular offenders are:


Enchant system. I have spent so much time and energy on trying to find good enchants for the builds that i play - i never even a single time found one. Never, searching everyday for periods of every league. I never got a good enchant. This is because your system is plain out bad as brought out by how impossible to is to will an enchant on a niche helmet. Just unbind them if you must have them like this, give us scrolls to use on our helmets. Or something, you never listen to us anyway with solutions so at least know that yours isn't good. It pisses me off every single league and eventually i give up because there is just zero chance of me getting what i want. I search for days and it never shows on trade, i'm not gonna run 500 and if im super unlucky 1000+ lab runs to get it myself that's nothing short of ridiculous. I am not that stupid you know like some little animal going off on impulses with no idea of reality. Pisses me off and the best solution for me is always to forget about that aspect of the game.

Traps and the whole annoying labyrinth. Extremely bad fit for many many build types and personality types. You can hold your ground and be ignorant if you want but look on your forums - great masses of people do not like it. Oh you are life without passive regen? Too bad prepare for massive frustration. Oh your characters defenses are based on curses or one of the many other things the game has to offer? Actually i don't wanna go into any particular argument it distracts from the simple truth that they are annoying and does not fit as a forced part of arpg's and bypasses the channels we develop characters by leading to annoyance and frustration.

It is excellent in that aspect, causing frustration and annoyance, it really is - like most of your other bad systems(as opposed to your good ones) they only are decent when they deal with the surprisingly low percentage of the whole for which it fits - much of the time they fail to function and deliver an undesirable result. Like when someone spams 5k fuses and gets no 6L this is a failure of the system because of a badly thought out system - the system literally fails to work if you aren't lucky.

Of stupid challenges in particular the one with the 3 statues that charge and have to be kept down is outrageously frustrating, but also simple the final bossroom has layouts that are undesireable, cramped and frustrating and lead to bad experiences because they don't feel enjoyable for many people. It would be fine if it was some of the maps that had certain challenges for certain types of builds, but lab is for everyone it needs to be all-embracing.

Honestly it's barely even touching on the root of what i wanted to say - i just need to get it through your fat skulls - lab is not okay. Enchant system is outrageous. Neither is okay, in a good state or adding quality to your game as is. It's mostly fools that defend either.

Satisfaction is often tied to gain, and as such there are many who have positive feelings tied to lab because the lab is a place where you can earn quite a lot - but it is so because people do not want to put their feet in there so that it is a rewarding place is actually also tied to how disliked it is in general. You will see a lot of lab defenders that defend it because they like to farm it. I don't mind it being there at all, but for it to be forced leads to lower game quality.

I like the idea of the lab, and if it didn't piss me off with many of my builds, placing strict requirements on which order i develop my characters in terms of defense/offense and what levels are required at certain stages, then i might not have minded. I honestly cannot put my finger on what it is - but it feels bad to take part in. It does suck and there is no escaping it, it is generally just something people want to get over with and most i talk with have no care for it or find it highly annoying/frustrating.

It is simply not okay that is has taken you this long and still you are doing nothing. I know you GGG we can wait for years for this type of thing before you get a clue of what is going on and maybe even then because some random walked in your office and started talking about it "from a whole new perspective", or some other ridiculous reason. Please wake up and open your eyes, you need to recognize and address the issues of the lab - you need to make it more embracing and not a mega center of frustration. You should have addressed the issues in less than half a year from it's implementation. But you seem to be completely ignorant and unable to act swiftly as soon as issues get even slightly complicated. It has always been your weakness, you don't cease the moment, you don't respect your players enough.

I haven't had time to play this league much till today, so i wanted to get the lab over with coz it was starting to piss me off and i needed it away from my mind. So i needed the last uber trial and joined someone in global 820 that had already cleared it and was sharing portals. It was a ridiculous layout inside. It was cleared already so no chance for me to get pot charges. I am life with vaal pact so no passive regen. I had 95% experience when i finally found the last trial i needed and because of its lame layout i lost i think 40% experience and felt highly annoyed and pissed of.

You need to understand that it is not a good experience, the imprints it leaves are not positive. Get your shit together please, i don't know what more i can say it's just bad.

Why do so many players think you are supposed to get an enchantment for the build you're currently playing?

Never looked at how many there are?

If lab is that problematic for you, why don't you stick to standard and just respec your existing characters?

"

widardd wrote:

Why do so many players think you are supposed to get an enchantment for the build you're currently playing?

Never looked at how many there are?

If lab is that problematic for you, why don't you stick to standard and just respec your existing characters?

Thing is he prolly has looked, as he has stated in his post. Helm enchant system is actually fucking aids though, hard to really argue with it.

Ya the white knights will say it's good for the economy and shit to trade. But what if he is playing the niche build where no one actually sells enchants for it. A lot easier for those of us who have lab farmers for example to buy a popular enchant without batting an eye. Try seeing it from his viewpoint.

Does suck that you feel this way but GGG doesn't give a shit, OP. Devs are obsessed with RNG so I think this will last.

They do actually give a shit.

The thing about the helmet enchants is that everyone only trade meta helmets with enchants on. So if your not rolling with kind of gear, you can't actually trade for it. With all these other system running off randomness, why this one as well? The whole enchant system could have been much better and be more involved with the character building process. As it stands, it's just a random bonus for most builds.

As far as the lab itself goes, it's incredible boring.. at least in my opinion. It doesn't really mesh well with the core mechanics of an ARPG as well as PoE for that matter. The traps are meaningless 90% of the time because you just run through them with movement skills. And the trash is, well trash. The side room rewards are junk. The enchant system isn't very rewarding. The only good thing is Izaro, I find him to be a fair boss to go up against. So I'll give the lab points for him.

Sadly, despite many many threads on the lab... I highly doubt anything is going to be done. I think GGG just want to move on from it and focus on newer stuff. So I wouldn't expect any changes to lab, trials, enchants.

This was a good read, OP. I used to hate the lab then eventually (mainly by accident) found that one of my characters could blaze through it blindfolded and started to farm it now and then. My strategy was extremely challenging:

1. Run real fast and kill everything with CoC
2. Spam Life and Quicksilver flasks
3. Abuse Pathfinder mods since flasks never run out

Pretty much gave up on the enchants though, but sometimes found helpful ones. A lot of my old Standard characters got bonus points when the lab came out so I never spent too much time in there.

I recently made a new character from scratch (I tend to recycle them but I do play leagues on occasion) and I forgot what a royal pain in the ass it is to do the lab trials four times. I ended up completing the uber lab at Lv 75...but the whole time I just kept thinking how I couldn't wait to be done with this horrible shite...blah!

But I do agree with the other posters - I think unfortunately the lab is here to stay. Unless of course, GGG decides to buff our ability to get good enchants.

I think around 5% would be a good place to start. :-)

1) the lab is a build/skill check. something that prevents very bad players with very bad builds trivializing the game. currently ggg cannot create other ways (they nerfed reflect and pretty much gave 'muh powah!' to everyone making this game kinda dumb).
it is ofc doable check but a check nonetheless. it can be infuriating if your build sucks or is glass cannon or deals no damage etc. it can be a pain. but in my understanding - this is what should happen. these builds should not be allowed to progress. if you are a good player and can make turd work - good for you, here is your cookie.

it might be better if the game was harder - as in nerf vaal pact, nerf ranged damage so 'skilled players' with tornado shot build with 4k HP have to re-evaluate their build choices - and make lab bit easier. but ggg at this point is beyond the point of no return. the game is pure power creep, no balance, no vision at this point. no chance for major player's strength nerf. not to mention that i can just imagine the outcry around here that 'my glass cannon build worked for 4 leagues and now i have to WASTE my points on DEFENSES? why i no longer can insta-leech to make me immortal? im so clever to discover this unique interaction of leech and VP!!'

things can be done better (some lab 'rooms' are just too big, some are too small, trap gauntlets are not visible enough in some cases) but for the most part lab curbs the progress of fail build/player combination

i like it that it can pretty quickly expose dents in my build when i level up. beating uber izaro on non-fotm build is a feat and doing it reliably means my build is somewhat complete. bosses one can 'cheat' with TPs and logouts. Izaro is mano-o-mano. i like it. it is pretty damn unique (and infuriating to some - over reliance on logouts hurts)

2) enchants. enchant system is THE poo in the room.

i hear you hate meta? here is more meta!

feedback loop helm enchants provide is extremely strong. i do not run labs for profit (i already have more money than i need) so it does not apply to me, but if i was a semi-concious trader/economy player what sense does it make to enchant anything but meta helmets?

Devotos, Rats nest, Abyssus, hubris and maybe evasion helmet. done. for every 100 hubris there is 1 non-meta helmet. why bother?

if one wants to use given enchant he pretty much HAS to use one of the above helmets. this makes meta even more meta.

want to get SRS enchant on your Deidbellow? lol.. (by the way this helmet is AMAZING)
want to get Scorching Ray on Heretic's Veil? lol..
want to get Frost Blades on The Vertex? lol^2

it sucks. it has nothing to do with the lab itself as a build trial (maps are no trials, people run them white and skip bosses and still think they can 'clear this content) but the enchant system is terrible and enforces everything bad that is happening in poe right now. meta meta meta meta or bust

There should be at least 2-3 helm enchant options available when you click the altar, plus additional option to keep your existing one. Current system is pure cancer, must agree to that.

Lab is aids. Hate everything about it since day 1.

Forces meta builds. Most builds can beat game but not lab (izaro) so they forced to over compensate which is usually meta.

Can't "pause" with a portal like any place else.

Can't trade in a trading game.

Can't play Vaal builds in boss fight - like VRF or VS.

Pigeon holes you into a few select helmets because shit odds of getting your enchant is near impossible so you have to go to market where everyone enchants only like 5 helms.

Waste of time if you die, log or DC.

Slow pace for non life regen non fast movers so you have to wait for traps and puzzle through instead of run through.

It's all shit. Only reason I go there is ascend and never again with that toon.

What I usually do to make it painless as possible is wait to do normal and cruel at like 60! Then mercless at 75. Uber at 85. Guaranteed success and fast to get it over with.

most builds.can complete the game but they cannot beat uber izaro? this one is a pretty damn bold.statement

beat as in run white.red map? or luck trough the fight carried by dps? or what? what shaper viable build.cannot complete the lab?

in fact - what.non fail buil cannot complete.the lab? no-regen vp builds.can do it. it is harder but there is nothin impossible.about it.

builds that kill uber izaro can fail with guardians and shaper. but other way around? doubtful

traps izaro and shaper are all mechanical. once.you know how they work the diffixulty goes.down significantly