[2.5] CI Witch Scorching Ray CWC Whispering Ice - Version 2.0 Released - Now with more damage!

• Your build places a higher priority on shocking / freezing / burning with Shaper of Desolation, but have you considered Mastermind? Perhaps consider it / testing, as 25% penetration is the same as saying 25% more.

• You could move your curse to orb of storms, which lasts 10 seconds by default, and would trigger EO for you perhaps more frequently than your setup. Could be more reliable flammability for bosses, just a thought.

• Did you do the math to consider if a Perandus Signet would outperform the +49 Int you get on your topaz?

• Did you have any issues keeping mana regeneration stable with your intelligence, considering 95% of your mana is reserved? I watched you perm-casting ray no problem in the videos, but how close is it? Maybe show the math for mana expenditure vs. your regen rate of 37.7 - seemed really cutting it close.

All in all a good looking build, thanks for sharing! I'll get it posted as is, it's definitely good enough.

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Kwitch wrote:

• Your build places a higher priority on shocking / freezing / burning with Shaper of Desolation, but have you considered Mastermind? Perhaps consider it / testing, as 25% penetration is the same as saying 25% more.

• You could move your curse to orb of storms, which lasts 10 seconds by default, and would trigger EO for you perhaps more frequently than your setup. Could be more reliable flammability for bosses, just a thought.

• Did you do the math to consider if a Perandus Signet would outperform the +49 Int you get on your topaz?

• Did you have any issues keeping mana regeneration stable with your intelligence, considering 95% of your mana is reserved? I watched you perm-casting ray no problem in the videos, but how close is it? Maybe show the math for mana expenditure vs. your regen rate of 37.7 - seemed really cutting it close.

All in all a good looking build, thanks for sharing! I'll get it posted as is, it's definitely good enough.

• Mastermind doesn't outperform the other options due to the fact that I already have 104 % penetration (so it's not really a 25 % more in seperate, but an addition to an already existent more modifier)

• Orb of storm will be moved into my CWDT when I get a 5 linked chest, I currently prefer lightning ball due to the fact it can travel farther in bosses that I want to keep away from me, were as orb of storms is locked in place and short ranged.

• I have considered perandus signet, but it is definitly not a must buy item, especially since my build currently is very budget and I am only running with 3 uniques (and the belt will be replaced for the new rare 80 es belt later on), so the profit from int per unique item would be unsatisfying, and we would lose defenses.

• I have no problems at all with mana sustain since the only thing I am paying for is scorching ray and it's link, not the icestorm that has all the support gems. All the build has to sustain is a 3 linked scorching ray (mine is even 4 linked atm, and still easily managable, especially with the 2 % mana leech from warlords mark is way overkill)


Thank you for your questions and input, and I am glad that you liked the build! I will keep updating it as I go. :)

I would like to try out this build, could you go into a little more detail on what passives to take while levelling? like first 20/30 skill points etc

thanks

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Zenevieva wrote:

I would like to try out this build, could you go into a little more detail on what passives to take while levelling? like first 20/30 skill points etc

thanks

Sure thing! Just added a new talent tree with 38 points.
I would go towards Heart of Flame as the first, then Fire Walker - > Snowforged -> Elemental Overload

I think im going to respec my witch into this for ulab farming, I can get Astramentis and Bsc so im hoping i can destroy izaro, and what do you think about the beast fur as chest?

Hey, loving the build. What exactly is proccing Elemental Overload if you have controlled destruction in your CWC setup?

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Dreschau wrote:

You actually leveled as es/ci? I've done many CI builds, but always leveled as life, and then respec'd to CI later when running maps.

How much of a bitch is it to lvl as es/ci?

Just bought a whispering ice and got it six socketed in like 10 jewelers, so starting this build because it looks awesome.

You can use The Curse Whisperer build by kelvynn for leveling tips. Leveling is really piece of cake as CI when u get the Whispering Ice. My highest char was using that build and i didnt die in the early levels with few exceptions ofc.

"

Kove11 wrote:

Hey, loving the build. What exactly is proccing Elemental Overload if you have controlled destruction in your CWC setup?

He is using ball lightning to proc overload.

I think im gonna mix The Curse Whisperer and this build. Just one question tho. Do you play like a range or melee build? I mean is it cool to play outside of the range blasphemy's warlord?

"

Mathoddie wrote:

Defense:

In "solid defense stats" I have 109 % more increased energy shield than him
166 % vs 57 %. That is quiet a huge number.
He does have a bit more int in his tree (80 flat in at 114 points + 60 he gets from jewel)
That is 140 intelligence he gains (which provides 28 % ES)

So the difference in ES is 166 % vs 75 % = 91 % ES in our favor
We also have 34 more flat ES than him
We can freeze! Which is a really nice defense
He has leap slam with fortify, but we can get that easily also, since we have open slots.

You only need enough ES not to get one shot, then your damage becomes your defense as you leech your ES back. 8-9k is sufficient, everything higher is a luxury.

Freeze is not really required as a defense mechanism as the mobs get stunlocked anyway. Bosses cannot be frozen.

"

Mathoddie wrote:

Damage:
He has 140 more int than me which is a big damage difference.
He has the 25 % penetration ascendancy, but we get 24 % from scorching ray, so that is eliminated.

We can shock that is 50 % MORE damage and 25 % increased damage from celestial punishment also
We can burn! So we get ignite buff from shards also
We have 97 % more increased damage than him.
We have 5 % more fire penetration in the build than him
We dont have a -10 % Less damage spell echo modifier
We have have a a faster casting speed with CWC
We have scorching ray damage also! (that ability actually does a lot of damage with this build)

TL;DR
It's hard to compare a level 92 stats vs a level 72. But all in all I would say we should both out damage and out defense? him at the same level.

How long does it take to build up 8 stacks to get the 24% penetration from the ray? around 3 seconds? some fights last less than that. and only targets in the ray get that penetration.

Increased damage gives diminishing returns.

Replacing SR+CWC with Echo+Elem focus gives a 1.4 multiplier.

Non-CWC Icestorm can reach 2.8 casts per second (with echo) and there is no delay before the first cast - you need to wait 0.35 seconds with the ray. Since you have no Unwavering stance in your tree, you can get jumped on and stunlocked.

The scorching ray damage doesn't contribute to the leech - that undermines your defense.

Don't get me wrong - this build is viable and can do any content - but I think that Kelvynn's build will noticeably outdamage this one and will also be safer to play.

"

Mathoddie wrote:

• Mastermind doesn't outperform the other options due to the fact that I already have 104 % penetration (so it's not really a 25 % more in seperate, but an addition to an already existent more modifier)

• Orb of storm will be moved into my CWDT when I get a 5 linked chest, I currently prefer lightning ball due to the fact it can travel farther in bosses that I want to keep away from me, were as orb of storms is locked in place and short ranged.

• I have considered perandus signet, but it is definitly not a must buy item, especially since my build currently is very budget and I am only running with 3 uniques (and the belt will be replaced for the new rare 80 es belt later on), so the profit from int per unique item would be unsatisfying, and we would lose defenses.

• I have no problems at all with mana sustain since the only thing I am paying for is scorching ray and it's link, not the icestorm that has all the support gems. All the build has to sustain is a 3 linked scorching ray (mine is even 4 linked atm, and still easily managable, especially with the 2 % mana leech from warlords mark is way overkill)


Thank you for your questions and input, and I am glad that you liked the build! I will keep updating it as I go. :)

Welp, let me discuss some things with you.

25% more is 25% more. 104% penetration < 129% penetration, you can continually penetrate beyond 0 at which point all penetration is 'more'. You are correct in thinking of it as an already existent more modifier, but it being separate or continuous has zero relevance on the fact that it increases damage more efficiently than any other multiplier mechanic. It's just that good. I guess you are happy with conflux which is absolutely not an issue, I merely asked if you had considered it.

You cannot trigger Orb of Storms with CwDT mechanically. It's not possible. Running OoS works better if you're running mastermind, and if you're not then I wouldn't suggest it. It merely played off of the previously stated mechanic consideration. Up to you if you want to test it or not.

Losing defenses is exactly what I asked you about w/ Signet. Your topaz is 24% ele resist, 49 int (+10) and +44 es. I wanted to know, with your contributions of tree and gear, if you considered Signet as potentially being an upgrade path. If you don't want to because you want to keep the build 'budget' or light on uniques that's fine, but it seems in-line with some other decisions you've made and other players may wish to consider it with relevant information that really only you can provide since you have the character and can demonstrate how good or bad it might be.

I still would like to know how you feel the build runs in map mods such as 'of Stasis' - Players cannot Regenerate Life, Mana or Energy Shield. And even less threatening ones such as 'of Congealment' -Cannot Leech Life from Monsters, Cannot Leech Mana from Monsters. I'm not faulting you at all for not including a list of which map mods are problematic for you in the guide, just suggesting it might be a razor thing line on the regen and any alteration to the regen might destabilize it.

And finally, let me suggest that although you wish to approach the build as 'easy to play, budget friendly', not all players desire to be limited by a 3c potential build. By all means, some may be able to self-itemize their own progression past what you have laid out, but to claim that a build is only 'x amount of money' or not suggest what directions they can go once they reach as far as you've been limits both the build guide and newer players in playing it. No build should have a 'price tag', just like no item in the game has a set fixed price. It's great to attract players by saying you can play it with little investment, but please do consider that many players can and will be interested in more.

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Drvi34 wrote:

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Dreschau wrote:

You actually leveled as es/ci? I've done many CI builds, but always leveled as life, and then respec'd to CI later when running maps.

How much of a bitch is it to lvl as es/ci?

Just bought a whispering ice and got it six socketed in like 10 jewelers, so starting this build because it looks awesome.

You can use The Curse Whisperer build by kelvynn for leveling tips. Leveling is really piece of cake as CI when u get the Whispering Ice. My highest char was using that build and i didnt die in the early levels with few exceptions ofc.

"

Kove11 wrote:

Hey, loving the build. What exactly is proccing Elemental Overload if you have controlled destruction in your CWC setup?

He is using ball lightning to proc overload.

I think im gonna mix The Curse Whisperer and this build. Just one question tho. Do you play like a range or melee build? I mean is it cool to play outside of the range blasphemy's warlord?

I agree levelling is a piece of cake with whispering ice! and as you said, you can currently use kelvynns levelling guide for more details, since mine is still a "beta" guide.

As to the elemental overload, I proc it with icestorm. Controlled destruction doesn't remove all of your crit, but just reduces it to the minimum of 5 %, since you hit so many times with icestorm, you proc is constantly.
Controlled destruction doesn't make you never crit.