@GGG - Could someone explain why Mjolner is having its cooldown increased? [new 2.6 changes :P]

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jeke777 wrote:

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Antnee wrote:

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jeke777 wrote:

Make skills have a certain amount of damage increase when triggered so they're viable in a 3 link kinda like what they did with discharge with the reduced damage when triggered.

Then you just completely nuke any incentive to hand-cast the skill. Triggering a spell has the (MASSIVE) benefit of overriding the mana cost to begin with; giving it more damage would exacerbate the other issues with triggering.

Again, this is very simple. Nix the Discharge/Trigger relationship. Then, you can begin to buff things up to where they need to be. Hell, you can buff discharge for all I care! Make it ridiculously powerful when hand-cast! It should be!

But you do want to buff mjlonir so the damage of a certain lightning skill is increased to a certain amount of damage so it's viable after discharge is gone? It's the same thing I suggested that would also completely nuke any incentive to hand-cast the skil. Let's just be honest here you just want discharge gone as a trigger spell lol no matter what.

I feel like you skimmed over everything I wrote, and responded to 5% of it, and did *not* respond to the weaknesses I exposed in your argument. That's fine. I'll simplify.

Mjolnir is rare.
Mjolnir should be strong.
Mjolnir should use lightning skills.
Mjolnir should be strong and use lightning skills.

Discharge is strong.
Triggers are strong.
Discharge when triggered is *far* too strong.
Discharge should not be triggered.

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Make skills have a certain amount of damage increase when triggered so they're viable in a 3 link kinda like what they did with discharge with the reduced damage when triggered.

That would make them broken with other channels again. Mjölnir is very specific in that it doesn't allow a lot of freedom for gears and passivs, because you need to get enough Str/Int for it. So you can only achieve something for Mjölnir if you put it into that weapon, but most of the obvious changes like "Triggered Gems deal more damage" or "+x to Lightning Gems" are not possible because of discharge.

So removing discharge as a trigger entirely opens up very easy ways to buff Mjölnir which are currently blocked purely by discharge. Of course another easy way would be to change the 33% less damage when triggered on discharge to 66% less damage when triggered and giving Mjölnir a 100% more damage mod for its triggered skill which would make it usable, maybe even just 50% more would be possible, but right now you have hardly any freedom to work with Mjölnir because while a CD change from 100ms to 250ms is always a straight 60% less damage to every lightning spell and in very many situations it isn't for discharge.

So Mjölnir in itself is a very special case, as a trigger it is already weaker than cospris or cast while channeling, not to mention that cospris can utilize both cast while channeling and cast on crit while also using its own procs.

So Mjölnir needs some buffs, some massiv ones for spells, to get the lost damage back Mjölnir would need a straight 150% more damage, which is unlikely to happen and not really necessary, giving lightning spells a smaller buff while reducing the massiv requirements for Mjölnir would likely be enough.

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Emphasy wrote:

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Make skills have a certain amount of damage increase when triggered so they're viable in a 3 link kinda like what they did with discharge with the reduced damage when triggered.

That would make them broken with other channels again. Mjölnir is very specific in that it doesn't allow a lot of freedom for gears and passivs, because you need to get enough Str/Int for it. So you can only achieve something for Mjölnir if you put it into that weapon, but most of the obvious changes like "Triggered Gems deal more damage" or "+x to Lightning Gems" are not possible because of discharge.

So removing discharge as a trigger entirely opens up very easy ways to buff Mjölnir which are currently blocked purely by discharge. Of course another easy way would be to change the 33% less damage when triggered on discharge to 66% less damage when triggered and giving Mjölnir a 100% more damage mod for its triggered skill which would make it usable, maybe even just 50% more would be possible, but right now you have hardly any freedom to work with Mjölnir because while a CD change from 100ms to 250ms is always a straight 60% less damage to every lightning spell and in very many situations it isn't for discharge.

So Mjölnir in itself is a very special case, as a trigger it is already weaker than cospris or cast while channeling, not to mention that cospris can utilize both cast while channeling and cast on crit while also using its own procs.

So Mjölnir needs some buffs, some massiv ones for spells, to get the lost damage back Mjölnir would need a straight 150% more damage, which is unlikely to happen and not really necessary, giving lightning spells a smaller buff while reducing the massiv requirements for Mjölnir would likely be enough.

It would actually make them viable again because let's be honest who still uses coc after the nerf or even the new cwc. Let GGG figure out how much each skill has to be inreased in damage so it's still balanced. Having a 150% buff on every lightning skill while using mjolnir would make certain skills a lot stronger than others.

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Antnee wrote:

I feel like you skimmed over everything I wrote, and responded to 5% of it, and did *not* respond to the weaknesses I exposed in your argument. That's fine. I'll simplify.

Mjolnir is rare.
Mjolnir should be strong.
Mjolnir should use lightning skills.
Mjolnir should be strong and use lightning skills.

Discharge is strong.
Triggers are strong.
Discharge when triggered is *far* too strong.
Discharge should not be triggered.

I'm not going to join your level of discussing things but I did clarify your weakness in your argument tho. Just reread it if you didn't fully understand it.

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It would actually make them viable again because let's be honest who still uses coc after the nerf or even the new cwc. Let GGG figure out how much each skill has to be inreased in damage so it's still balanced. Having a 150% buff on every lightning skill while using mjolnir would make certain skills a lot stronger than others.

CoC and CwC are just balanced, which makes them not stand out a lot. You can do some very fun builds with them, they aren't Flameblasts or Blade Flurries, but usable.

So you essentially want to put odd modifiers on every single thing just for not doing it with Mjölnir and punish Discharge. Because you could just further nerf triggered discharge and buff Mjölnir, that is a very simple solution.

And also Lightning Skills are all equally shitty. Storm Call is a bit better on single target compared to Arc, but overall they are fairly similar and are all pretty decently balanced to each other. If you would just overall buff them a little bit (Glacial Hammer style), you would end up with a bunch of pretty balanced skills.

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Emphasy wrote:

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It would actually make them viable again because let's be honest who still uses coc after the nerf or even the new cwc. Let GGG figure out how much each skill has to be inreased in damage so it's still balanced. Having a 150% buff on every lightning skill while using mjolnir would make certain skills a lot stronger than others.

CoC and CwC are just balanced, which makes them not stand out a lot. You can do some very fun builds with them, they aren't Flameblasts or Blade Flurries, but usable.

So you essentially want to put odd modifiers on every single thing just for not doing it with Mjölnir and punish Discharge. Because you could just further nerf triggered discharge and buff Mjölnir, that is a very simple solution.

And also Lightning Skills are all equally shitty. Storm Call is a bit better on single target compared to Arc, but overall they are fairly similar and are all pretty decently balanced to each other. If you would just overall buff them a little bit (Glacial Hammer style), you would end up with a bunch of pretty balanced skills.

They are balanced around their cast speed and damage and so on. It's different when you trigger it because you remove the cast speed. Not going to do the math but I hope you do understand if every lightning skill gets a 150% increased damage buff there will be a difference in balance of the spells when it's triggered because every spell has different damage.

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Antnee wrote:

Mjolnir and Arc/Ball lightning/Spark/Tendrils/Storm Call can't be a thing because Discharge. Thats 5 things you can't use because of *one* thing. Get it?

The single gamebreaking build involving Mjolnir uses *discharge*, not Arc. Not Ball lightning. Not Spark. Not shock nova. Not Tentrils. Not Storm Call. Discharge.

So they should increase base dmg of Arc/Ball lightning/Spark/Tendrils/Storm Call or other aspects to lift those spells to the same lvl of goodness. Buffing not used skills. Not killing other skills. Get it?

There was a time where spark was very popular. Spark totems with fork so called "Spork" builds. They nerfed it because was to op. Next was dual wield Mjolner with guess what? Spark. They nerfed it. Vaal spark? Got nerfed. Pure chaos dmg builds? Nerfed. There were fun builds with CoC. They nerfed them as well. There were fun builds with block/spell block before Ascendancy. They nerfed block, caus to op... There were strong SRS builds. They nerfed the skulls - both dmg and AI. Because, yeah, to op. BV was nerfed. The Harvest was nerfed. Surgeon's were nerfed. Life nodes on tree were nerfed. Back in the days it was quite common to reach 8-10k hp pool with good gear. But no... that was to op as well. So now going ES makes the only sense. And we have currently most of builds that are ES based with ES pool of 10-12k able to dish out tons of dps with recent skills like BFlury which is basically "hold x button to win". You call that "balance"? So no sorry mate. But I will stay strong with what I wrote: they're limiting player's options and removing the fun from the game. They should buff less used skills, add more chalenging content (monsters/bosses) instead of removing widely used skills/builds and loosing more and more players this way.

The reason why games like D2 hold strong over the years were a) temp leagues (season ladders) b) not messing with what people liked to play. Did they nerfed hammerdins? No. Did they nerf enigma? No. Did they do anything about strong javazons or lightning sosos builds with infinity runeword? No. People loved to play with those and dev team kept those in game intact. They were smart.

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RicoKGB wrote:

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Antnee wrote:

Mjolnir and Arc/Ball lightning/Spark/Tendrils/Storm Call can't be a thing because Discharge. Thats 5 things you can't use because of *one* thing. Get it?

The single gamebreaking build involving Mjolnir uses *discharge*, not Arc. Not Ball lightning. Not Spark. Not shock nova. Not Tentrils. Not Storm Call. Discharge.

So they should increase base dmg of Arc/Ball lightning/Spark/Tendrils/Storm Call or other aspects to lift those spells to the same lvl of goodness. Buffing not used skills. Not killing other skills. Get it?

There was a time where spark was very popular. Spark totems with fork so called "Spork"

Stopped reading there. Check my account creation date.

Buffing the other skills up to discharge's level... You know what, you do the math. Tell me exactly how much you would have to buff, say, arc up to that level.

(Hint, it would be fucking ridiculous)

yeah that was nice on D2 too know your build were you spend alot of time will not get nerft. And yeah there endgame builds and should be strong. But in POE they can nerf everything and becouse the ppl look at a +100ex build killing shaper or uber aziri and there 30c build cant do it and cry for nerf. And now they are crying for flameblast. Mjöner is my favorite unique and enjoyed playing it. So my point too those cryers play the game and enjoy or leave but let the ppl play the build there like and not cry for nerf (i dont like flameblast but would never call for nerf)

Goddamn you people are missing the point so hard. Like, you're going out of your way to miss the point.

If Mjolnir's mod was "Cast socketed DISCHARGE gem on melee hit", I would not give a single shit about how powerful it was.

Mjolnirs mod is "LIGHTNING gem", and because Discharge has a LIGHTNING tag, it affects the balance of all other gems you could socket into the item. Fucks sake, it's not hard. Really its not. Take regular breaks, and go for short walks if you need to while reading the following statement:

I do not care how strong Discharge is. I care that Discharge affects the balance of other skills, through interactions with triggers.

Did you make it through? It was hard, I know. But, try reading it one more time.

I do not care how strong Discharge is. I care that Discharge affects the balance of other skills, through interactions with triggers.

Whew! I'm glad you made it out alive. After all, the concentration needed to make it through those two sentences surely drained you.