@GGG - Could someone explain why Mjolner is having its cooldown increased? [new 2.6 changes :P]

I should get credit for the magic bump boys! LOL

I'm happy to get an answer and hope that there is some kind of solution in the future. As someone that has zero performance issues with any item or skill I was a tad disappointed to read that in the answer.

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kolyaboo wrote:

I should get credit for the magic bump boys! LOL

I'm happy to get an answer and hope that there is some kind of solution in the future. As someone that has zero performance issues with any item or skill I was a tad disappointed to read that in the answer.

I took the answer to be with respect to server performance, though I suppose people with weak PCs may struggle with client performance with a 100ms cooldown.

Holy shit YO HE ANSWERED

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Qarl wrote:

For Discharge specifically, we'd most like to see its primary use as a self-cast skill. We likely won't make any changes in this direction until 3.0.0.

This would make me ridiculously happy.

Hello hammer bross.

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Qarl wrote:

The balance team (a combination of specific designers and QA) was under a reasonable pressure to pick a right answer for 2.5.0 in a short period of time.

This makes me laugh. A group of people, programmers included, whith this kind of experience in arpg was not able to deliver a very simple anserw?

- If we are making game to do less blasts per sec what shall we do to keep it in balance?
- Oh! Maybe increase the dmg of each single blast? Yes?


Patch notes I would like to see in 3.0:

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Unique rebalance:

- Mjolner, Cospri's Malice has had their cooldown decreased to 160ms (was 250ms). This allows for 6 casts/s.


Skill gems rebalance:

- Discharge has had its "35% less dmg penalty when triggered" removed at the same time Discharge base chance to crit has been lowered to 6% (was 7%).

- Cast on Critical Strike cooldown has had its cooldown decreased to 200ms (was 500ms). This allows for 5 casts/s. At the same time Cast on Critical Strike has had its "more" dmg modifier removed. It now has 0-40% (or 2% per gem lvl) dmg increased instead.


- All the current trigger mechanics stays the same.

Actual numbers requires "fine tuning" but you get the idea.


This will allow for more frequency in triggers but still in the "reasonable" range.

At the same time crit based Discharge trigger builds will be more "in balance" due to the Discharge base crit chance decreased.

Cast on Crit gem should have its cooldown set a bit higher because its universal and allows for many different spell combinations. At the same time theres "more" dmg multiplier removed and increased dmg added to compensate for less triggers/s than uniques.

This way every option should be fun again but not op and with 5-6 casts/s a sec not really "performance heavy". Ajt?


Now triggers vs self cast wise:

5-6 casts/s are quite easy to achieve with self cast. Now Mjolner / Cospris Malice can have only 2 supports while self cast builds can have at least 4 if we agree that spell echo is mandatory to achieve such cast rate. No disadvantage here. Cast on Crit can have 3 supports but at least one of those sockets will be "wasted" for Increased Critical Strike gem. So actually 2 supports or 2 spells and 1 support. Still that will be "only" 5 casts/s so no disadvantage vs self cast here as well.

If you really want to push people towards using self casts a bit more rework spell echo. Remove its "10% less dmg" penalty and increase its quality bonus from crappy 0-10% spell dmg increase to like 0-40% spell dmg increase.

If you want to push people to use self cast Discharge add something to it. It can have much larger AoE when self cast for example.


Now outside of this topic:

You should really boost life nodes (4% -> 5% && 6% -> 8%) and at least try to rework some old melee skills to be actually more usefull (a simple dmg boost should do the trick in most cases).

With added content such as act 5, with addition of some challenging monsters/bosses alongside with overall reduction in number of areas for player to reach end-game, with changes listed above you may actually aim for best patch notes yet. This would make many people very happy again.


Diversity was allways what has kept this game fun to play. Do not take away player's options. Do not kill "op" builds. Add more challenging monsters.

No, sorry, the trigger/discharge relationship needs to die a painful, swift death. It's needed to die for a long time. It's the singular reason for Mjolnir to have had such a massive nerf, and this kind of thing won't stop until Discharge can be removed from the "trigger" equation when balancing.

It has too much base damage for a spell to not be self-cast. The skill was made when the only way to accumulate charges was slow and manual, and now any build can just idly have charges whirling about.

All your suggestions are far more complex than need be. "Discharge + trigger" is the problem with trigger balance.

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Antnee wrote:

"Discharge + trigger" is the problem with trigger balance.

Its not the problem. It is so called fun. The other, not used skills are the problem. But it is much easier for a developer to cut one thing instead of reworking all other things.

The reason why so many years has passed and people are still playing games like D2 is fun.

I have been playing arpg since D1 realease. All that matters in this genre is a pleasure of effective and fast killing large groups of monsters. The feeling of power. Especially rewarding when content is challenging and it requires a properly designed character build that takes time investment to accomplish. Diversity and actual depth of character desing are very important for game's long-life.

The problem is destroying such a goal and instead bringing flustration. Limiting player's options and making it narrow. Games are not meant to be flustrating. They are meant to be fun.

You should be sorry in the funeral not while playing a game. Its an entertainment after all ajt?

You keep throwing that term around; "Limiting player's options"

Discharge + Trigger prevents tens and tens of builds from being viable, because any trigger interaction must take discharge into account first and foremost. So, you have it entirely backwards.

My options are limited because Discharge + trigger is so ridiculously overpowered.

To put a finer point on that, Mjolnir and Arc/Ball lightning/Spark/Tendrils/Storm Call can't be a thing because Discharge. Thats 5 things you can't use because of *one* thing. Get it?

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Antnee wrote:

You keep throwing that term around; "Limiting player's options"

Discharge + Trigger prevents tens and tens of builds from being viable, because any trigger interaction must take discharge into account first and foremost. So, you have it entirely backwards.

My options are limited because Discharge + trigger is so ridiculously overpowered.

To put a finer point on that, Mjolnir and Arc/Ball lightning/Spark/Tendrils/Storm Call can't be a thing because Discharge. Thats 5 things you can't use because of *one* thing. Get it?

O really? Which buids? Why prevent you use other lighting skills with mjolner Discharge? Dont make me laught ,it sounds more like you just hate it.Did even play Mjolner build? i can say no, because you can use discharge fine with other skills as well.And forget POE is ONLINE MULTIPLAYER GAME that mean people should chouse which build they will play Trigger or self cast not you.

Well have you tried Mjölnir + Arc as one example, it is terrible and it has to be. You could give +2 to Lightning Gems... but guess what not possible because Discharge, you could give 20% Lightning Pen, but guess what not possible because Discharge. Discharge entirely eliminates any freedom to buff Mjölnir unless you buff it in a way that essentially ruins Discharge or doesn't benefit it at least and thats hard. Because any possible buff that wouldn't benefit discharge would only benefit maybe one lightning skill, like Arc because it works fundamentally different. One example I mentioned is making Arc dealing double damage to the last enemy it chains to, which would increase the single target dps, changes like those however would still mean Ball Lightning, Storm Call, Spark or basically any other Lightning Spell is unusable with Mjölnir.

Discharge is just so ridicolously powerful because it is hard to exactly assess the amount of charges players will generate in a certain timeframe, because there might be uniques doing things like that or skills that hit ridicolously often or whatever other mechanic might happen.

As long as discharge is so much more powerful on triggers than any other skill those other options are non existent of course you could in theory do them, but you could also just smash someone in the face with mjölnir, that is doable too.

The easiest solution is to make Discharge Elemental and not have it behave like a Fire, Cold or Lightning Attack (much like Elemental Weakness or Purity of Elements), this would mean Cospris and Mjölnir couldn't even trigger it. And at this time you can easily double Mjölnirs trigger damage, because it wouldn't be broken, actually you could like do even more than that.

The coolest thing actually would be if a Lightning Triggered Discharge would behave exactly like that (iE only the lightning damage would benefit from +x to Lightning Gems and only the power charges would be consumed to deal lightning damage with Mjölnir). This would have a nice sideaffect of not having to get Volls to make use of Mjölnir.

And the issue is even though some of those Lightning Spells could need some small buffs anyway, you would have to double or triple their damage to make them compete with Mjölnir which again makes them completly broken for selfcast builds.