Nothing wrong with Blade Flurry, it's not OP it just doesn't suck like typical melee

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Well, you know there is a problem when you use a 6 linked Static Strike on a nice optimised way, with RT and dual Dory and try a generic Blade Flurry keeping the same colours and linking the supports and the feeling as a damage dealer and clear speed goes so much in the favour of Blade Flurry it's not even funny...

If you all say that Blade Flurry is in a good spot, some of the true melee range skills should be helped to reach it too...

No I do think BF is in a good spot, I just don't agree with nerfs to it. I feel the other melee gems are the ones that need to be brought into line with BF. Or accross the board nerfs to caster gems as well as to BF would also be OK. But not just nerfing BF and leaving other gems as they are.

I will continue watching the league ladders but they are currently unfolding exactly as I predicted.

"

No I do think BF is in a good spot, I just don't agree with nerfs to it. I feel the other melee gems are the ones that need to be brought into line with BF.

I agree it is in a good spot, because it got nerfs, it still outdamages a lot of spells and every attack but it now has a clear usecase, which is as a boss killer and that is fine.

They had to push it in one area, either keep the damage and reduce the AoE or keep the AoE and reduce the damage, there are a lot of great AoE skills already Lacerate and Reave are just two, so opting into a skill more focussed into single target was a good direction. It is still very good for overall clear, but not better than Reave or Lacerate, however it stomps both of them in terms of single target damage (and both of them means even if you could use Reave and Lacerate at the same time Blade Flurry can outdamage them).

I also did a bit of a mistake with my 280pdps weapon argument... because it should be 300, I noticed that the dps stats for claws in the wiki are not update for the new speed, Scourge alone can push past 300dps.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

^^
riight, about similar dps before resistances, and before counting hatred / HoF in the BF dps.

And accounting for 100% of the dmg duration on firetrap is .... /lol
Plus those other spells like flamesurge / tendrils, frostbolt are just largely inferior in term of range / execution, which makes the actual dps much lower.


Saying that BF does pretty shitty damage with a 280 dps weapon is kinda ignorant man ... I hope that you do realize that.

Because mobs in POE all have capped resistances and no armor, and phys spells don't exist, and etc etc lol

The dps "claim" isn't a claim, it's a fact. I gave you the numbers, stop making excuses.

More bad faith.
Mobs's armor basically is equivalent to 0 due to the fact that people's dps is way too high and how it works.
Magic monsters with the armour suffix have a fix damage reduction value, those ones are not common tho.

And yes, plenty of mobs have innate elemental resistances, + rare's auras, + eventual map modes, etc ....
You must have never played caster at high level to ignore this.

Phys spells aren't the ones that are very popular and meta but for bladefall atm, only bladefall is really used.
For your fancy numbers, you used 13 spells, one physical and one chaos, so even more bad faith on your own there, you tried to show fallaciously that spell are soo much better dps wise using 11 elemental example, and when you're being told that elemental skill do inherently less damage overall ( unless you curse your ennemis ), you just "but there are physical spells too !!!".
:/

By the way, Nguyen was pretty much crushing the content with a mediocre elemental rapier earlier on his stream, with blade flurry of course.
Veeeery far from the weapons that you are talking about.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

No I do think BF is in a good spot, I just don't agree with nerfs to it.

Of course its better, it HAS been nerfed -__-

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

I will continue watching the league ladders but they are currently unfolding exactly as I predicted.

Are you going to stop blatantly lying at some point ?

- Earlier the 3rd [Etup] was a bladeflurry, he is not playing anymore so he is 6th.
- Nguyen, raider, blade flurry too, 15th now
- Darkee, assassin, 16th (rip), the three is physical + crit + AOE, most likely blade flurry.

That makes already 3 blade flurry in the top 20, and we cannot guess others that have their profile private.
But maybe it did not occur to you that blade flurry isn't an assassin skill only right ? /lol
This, knowing that your - said - predictions where on the un nerfed version.

Ok fruz we get it, you think you're the only person who knows how this game works and bf is obviously overpowered because you say so.

I'm pretty sure I told you dual wield assassin as life build is fucking riptown. Oh surprise one of the 2 guys using that build has died already just over 1 day into the league.

One of the BF chars is dead, the raider might survive because raider is pretty brokeshit op right now (which is the only part of all this I did not anticipate), but etup was well on his way to riptown as well, and if you watched his stream at all (which I did btw) he wasn't even doing as much damage as his friends using flameblast totems and etc. Odds are he's not playing anymore because the build sucks for HC.

IF he does continue to play and he does not immediately switch to CI/ES, he will die probably within a week.

This leaves, at best, 2 BF characters. Likely 1 by the time 3 days time is up.

At this point, with the leagues unfolding EXACTLY as I fucking told you they would, you no longer have any excuse for what you're doing.

Well the ladder is still heavily in flow and some people might choose Elementalist Flameblast to level, the league was similarly loaded with the exact same build last league and only 3 of them ended up in top 50. Flameblast Elementalist is a very fantastic league starter. Blade Flurry is not, you need a Scourge or Binos, which isn't too expensive but risky to start with, expecting to get one.

I'm actually surprised that neither so many of the Inquisitors and Elementalists died already. Flameblast Totems are fairly safe and the Flameblast proliferate builds to a similar extent. Oddly enough we have Slayers and Juggernauts, although those could be Warchief (Slayer might be a decent pick to compensate for the range nerf).

But again I'm not sure why we speak about melee here. There are plenty. A lot of Slayers, 7 of total and those I looked at are all Melees, some of the others might be Warchief, I can't say for sure. There are again a few Bladeflurries, but not a single Archer. There is only one character even using a bow (but again its CA).

So with 3 Bladeflurries and 7 Slayers, which makes it very likely that we have 10 Melees. There are also two Juggernauts, one of which is Melee, the other might be, no idea (but since there was a Firestorm CI Juggernaut in the Ladder last league it could be anything).

Of course this hardly says anything. Because why are there so many Slayers and Elementalists using builds that didn't change, and which were hardly present in the final EHC ladder? Because Slayers are the best Izaro farmers and Elementalists the safest budget map clearers. And you see a lot of builds that might transition into other builds later. Ziz Firestorm Trickster is likely not gonna stay a Firestorm Trickster.

"

At this point, with the leagues unfolding EXACTLY as I fucking told you they would, you no longer have any excuse for what you're doing.

We aren't doing anything. Nobody is calling for a BF nerf... because it got one, a reasonable one as well. And if you remember correctly I predicted Bladeflurry to replace Lacerate, which it did. Not sure if we might end up with 2 BF chars like we did with Lacerate, but it is a possibility. That is mainly because Blade Flurry serves a similar purpose and is simply better at that. And using a Juggernaut once you have the weapons that are good enough you don't rely on Raider or Assassin they can easily survive. But you want your Offhand and at least Binos, which does cost a few chaos to start with.

"

Emphasy wrote:

But again I'm not sure why we speak about melee here. There are plenty. A lot of Slayers, 7 of total and those I looked at are all Melees, some of the others might be Warchief, I can't say for sure. There are again a few Bladeflurries, but not a single Archer. There is only one character even using a bow (but again its CA).

So with 3 Bladeflurries and 7 Slayers, which makes it very likely that we have 10 Melees. There are also two Juggernauts, one of which is Melee, the other might be, no idea (but since there was a Firestorm CI Juggernaut in the Ladder last league it could be anything).

"

At this point, with the leagues unfolding EXACTLY as I fucking told you they would, you no longer have any excuse for what you're doing.

We aren't doing anything. Nobody is calling for a BF nerf... because it got one, a reasonable one as well. And if you remember correctly I predicted Bladeflurry to replace Lacerate, which it did. Not sure if we might end up with 2 BF chars like we did with Lacerate, but it is a possibility. That is mainly because Blade Flurry serves a similar purpose and is simply better at that. And using a Juggernaut once you have the weapons that are good enough you don't rely on Raider or Assassin they can easily survive. But you want your Offhand and at least Binos, which does cost a few chaos to start with.

I was referring to Fruz and his overall antics, not to your posts.

But yeah, there are a TON of eq slayers up there. There were nowhere close to that many last league so we'll see if that continues. As to lacerate, I also predicted one or two of the lacerate/eq guys would switch to BF, so we agreed on that a long time ago.

As for BF, there is 1/2 dead dual wield assassins (the other not playing), which I predicted would die a lot, and 2 raiders, which got a surprisingly massive buff that I did not expect. I would argue that those raiders would be MUCH better as flicker strikers, but BF is new so people want to try it. So make of that what you will.

So we have a lot more EQ and flame blast than anything else right now. But neither of those gems got nerfs. Oh and I feel like pointing out that glacial hammer did not get buffed at all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

BTW I am leveling a melee character using your regular starter shadow melee tree using BV to level. Found a mightflay and was like "oh sweet, OP starter item, jackpot lets try the new OP BF gem". But it cleared slower than BV and I sold it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We'll see how things look on Monday night.

"

As for BF, there is 1/2 dead dual wield assassins (the other not playing), which I predicted would die a lot, and 2 raiders, which got a surprisingly massive buff that I did not expect. I would argue that those raiders would be MUCH better as flicker strikers, but BF is new so people want to try it. So make of that what you will.

Not sure... with breach Flicker Strike might be a bit too risky, yes it offers great clear, but BF is so much safer. I would assume one or two Juggernauts to switch over to BF, because it works well with them.

The Slayers are very likely Izaro farmers, we had a similar amount early on last league, same goes for the elementalists. I don't expect to see so many elementalists and slayers around later. Many of the Elementalists might switch to Inquisitor later, because crit just pushs a bit more damage.

But again there is not a single archer, which is a bit more concerning. And from a SC perspective archers are fine, but they do have very low HP. They lack a powerful unique like Starforge or Disfavour, can't cheese their skill with Deaths Hand like Reave or Lacerate and they can't skyrocket their attack speed with Brightbeak. Bows essentially have just a bit more damage than a 1h weapon. The best bow currently in the game for physical dps is Reach with 260 dps and about 320 with full quality and Lioneyes with about 360. Your average unique claw (Scourge, Allure) cashs in at about 330dps, because essentially everybody will use them with either a brightbeak or a deaths hand depending if they use Reave or Bladeflurry, which nets them two multipliers for dualwielding, while a shield would offer considerably more defenses than a quiver (but to be fair, I hardly see 1h+Shield^^).

So Archers while fine in SC, because they can stack damage and run around with something between 4-5k HP have a lot of issues in HC for many of the same reasons, melees are expected to run into trouble.

So instead of looking at melees we should look at a subcategory of melee, lets call it "actual melee". Skills that only hit one enemy suck. Skills that hardly reach far enough for your char to scratch his own nose suck and skills that are clearly outperformed by a similar skill that does essentially the same suck (I'm looking at you Cleave and Lacerate).

We currently have way too many skills in the game and many of them just suck. And this doesn't just include melee skills. Shrapnel shot is a nice starter skill but beyond that it sucks. Glacial Hammer basically turned into our own PoE meme... at least one that deals 6% more damage. And even spells such as Magma Orb or Lightning Tendrils are kinda laughed at. All of those skills can work and if you put some effort into them they can even do most of the top content. I'm not sure if that Dualstrike Berserker ever killed shaper, but I was surprised enough that he was able to do Uber Atziri.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

some more nonsense

No, I underlined an important part because I thought that you missed it, otherwise, but you missed it all the same.

Those 3 players are only in the top 20.
Do you see it now ? Not 50, 20.

The fact that Etup was #3 like ~10 hours after the start on a post-nerfed blade flurry build already destroyed all of your pathetic "predictions".
The irrelevant "no melee or almost in the top ladder" has also been destroyed because of how many EQ builds are in there.

And Nguyen's weapon was really mediocre, he will prolly take a shield when he gets a better one.

And of course, if one rip, it has to be because of bladeflurry, like it can not be anything else, it's impossible right ?
The other rip musht have been because of the skill, like hell ... a pizza stick build riped, surely it is because flameblat totem is sooo shit right ?
/facepalm


PS : I understand why your balance opinion / perspective is soo messed up and now : you are taking pizza sticks as a reference for balancing LOL.


@Emphasy : there was an assassin archer yesterday, using LA I think.
Slayer should also work pretty well with BF, any AOE increase is welcomed after all.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

some more nonsense

No, I underlined an important part because I thought that you missed it, otherwise, but you missed it all the same.

Those 3 players are only in the top 20.
Do you see it now ? Not 50, 20.

The fact that Etup was #3 like ~10 hours after the start on a post-nerfed blade flurry build already destroyed all of your pathetic "predictions".
The irrelevant "no melee or almost in the top ladder" has also been destroyed because of how many EQ builds are in there.

And Nguyen's weapon was really mediocre, he will prolly take a shield when he gets a better one.

And of course, if one rip, it has to be because of bladeflurry, like it can not be anything else, it's impossible right ?

He ripped because he was using a dual wield assassin life character. It's relevant because that's the build you all showcase as how "leet damage" BF is. Which is complete fucking nonsense because it's a glass cannon, obviously it's going to have dps.

And having one guy be a top 3 as BF means absolutely nothing to my predictions. When 3 days time is up we will look at the board and see the results. I predicted there would be 1 or 2 streamers doing BF, you seem to have a convenient memory loss for these kinds of things.

Only thing that's really out of place for my predictions right now is the amount of EQ slayers. The amount of BF characters is complete irrelevance right now when you look at that fucking ladder.

And yes, I am using pizza sticks as a balancing point, because it didn't get any nerfs. Maybe you don't understand that concept: the 2 most OP spells last league received 0 nerfs. Pathfinder got nerfed but BV is still relatively untouched and in many cases is doing MORE DAMAGE than it was before.

Wait until Monday afternoon and take a look.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

He ripped because he was using a dual wield assassin life character. It's relevant because that's the build you all showcase as how "leet damage" BF is.

And another blatant lie, I'm not surprised.

You have nothing to support the claim that he died because of the build, literally nothing>
If the others die, that would mean something, but it's not the case, try again.

You predicted 1 or 2 BF in the top 50, I showed you 3 in the top 20, what is wrong with your memories ?
And again, you are being wrong with a post-nerfed blade flurry, which changes quite a bit from what it was.

Pathfinder got nerfed ? Lol you have no clue lol.
Pathfinder ( apart from cheesing with BV ) got upped man, wake up !
The difference with BV is that you cannot cheesing with Pathfinder, and that is a really good thing, that will make it more dangerous to play, prolly less popular in HC then.

And the fact that pizza stick didnt get nerfed, as baffling as it is doesn't matter in the slightest, not seeing that those are ( and have been for a while ) completely OP is being blind.