Nothing wrong with Blade Flurry, it's not OP it just doesn't suck like typical melee

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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Sure_K4y wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

If you want to nerf BF fine, but it needs to come with a nerf to about 30% of the game's other gems as well if that's the case. If those nerfs don't come, then neither should BF get nerfed. That is the simple fact myself and others are arguing.

No, it does not need to come with a nerf to other skills. Period. Your entire point is: "As long as casters have OP, melee is entitled to have OP". Which is just as ridiculous and devoid of any reason as it sounds. The moment you say "but the others", is when you loose all credibility in regards to this topic. You don't actually discuss at all, you try pushing your agenda here, which in a nutshell is "Melee needs OP skill, because casters have OP skill".

Oh Jesus, you know what you're right, I mean why should we have balance between builds or even between archetypes? Fuck it, just leave bv in fact why not just double the damage since balance clearly doesn't matter to you, it's totally ok for bv to be the only competitive skill apparently in your world.

Why are you even discussing the skill gem balance at all if you apparently believe that nerfing one op gem shouldn't also come with nerfs to other op gems? This is a discussion primarily about skill gem balance and basically you're saying you don't give a shit about balance at all, you just want to make sure melee can't play the game.

Stop moving your goalposts. The topic is Blade flurry. Bladeflurry is OP. Bladeflurry deserves a nerf.

You tried justifying BF being OP, because there are other skills which are also OP. You failed miserably.

Don't try putting words in mouth. I said the balance overall is lackluster, and that it needs dealing with.

I never said other skills shouldn't get nerfed at all.

I said nerfing flurry is nothing that has to be tied to other nerfs and buffs. Skill OP = Skill should get nerfed. End of line.

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Oh Jesus, you know what you're right, I mean why should we have balance between builds or even between archetypes? Fuck it, just leave bv in fact why not just double the damage since balance clearly doesn't matter to you, it's totally ok for bv to be the only competitive skill apparently in your world.

So could you actually name those skills?

I highly doubt that there are even 10 skills better than Blade Flurry, and considering that basically everybody knows that BV is too strong I have a hard time finding one skill that is clearly outperforming Blade Flurry.

Yes Ancestral Warchief is pretty powerful, but again hardly outright better. But I could agree on that one being one of the 10. Tornado Shot could be better if you always aim it perfectly... but again it actually has a shorter range than what is possible with BF because you have to shot somewhere on your screen. Barrage could be better if you get additional projectiles... but then again the enchant for Blade Flurry is similarly ridiculous as the one for Barrage.

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We all know how powerfull people like Mathil makes skills look. If im not mistaken he does all content with nearly every build he makes with a huge variety of skills.

Should the game be balanced around him?

If blade flurry needs to be nerfed so do lots of other skills and the rest would need to be buffed.

Well the thing is, yes he does have a certain amount of skill and knowledge, however killing Atziri with a 100dps dagger is a feet that is a bit more out of place. Try that with Earthquake, make a lvl60 Char and use a mediocre weapon. The skills doesn't have the mechanics to be able to do that. Even if you would use Marohi you would have a hard time.

Scaling of Blade Flurry is just completly outclassing any other melee skill. Yes it is used with 1h weapons which natively gives it a lower damage treshold due to 1h weapons having lower damage than 2h weapons but using Steel Rings or Abyssus has such a huge effect on it due to how well it scales with weapon damage that you can easily look over that.

And we know another skill that scales incredible with outside sources of damage... that is Blade Vortex. No other skill can achieve 600% Damage Effectiveness or more with more duration besides of course Firestorm. And even though Blade Flurry doesn't achieve such high numbers it does go very high up.

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Why are you even discussing the skill gem balance at all if you apparently believe that nerfing one op gem shouldn't also come with nerfs to other op gems?

Who actually says that. Nobody here questions Blade Vortex is OP. I mentioned that Warchief is propably too powerful as a totem as well. But you are essentially arguing that Blade Flurry is worse than many other skills, but are still unable to name them (those 30%). So I can make an easy challange, if you are able to name 24 Skills that are as powerful or more powerful than Blade Flurry, I accept that Blade Flurry is totally fine. I even adjusted the challange to your advantage (you said gems, I assume you are ignoring curses and more supportive skills, so I don't count them), otherwise you would have to name over 30 skills, but there are about 80 damage skills (not counting stuff like Vigilant Strike or Whirling Blades) and I would rate Blade Flurry top 5 or at least top 10, so find me those 30% (iE 24) skills that are as strong or stronger than Blade Flurry and everything is fine.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

If you want to nerf BF fine, but it needs to come with a nerf to about 30% of the game's other gems as well if that's the case. If those nerfs don't come, then neither should BF get nerfed. That is the simple fact myself and others are arguing.

All I hear is balance the game around imbalance, aka power creep. See Diablo 3 for reference where everything is doubled every patch to match (lol) other things. Realistically, players get stronger, content gets easier, and everyone feels pushed to play specific builds to progress, so build variety suffers.

I'd rather go the route of if it's op and broken, nerf it so it isn't and other options seem valiable

And before some smart guy points out that there is power creep in PoE, consider the scale dammit! Blade flurry deals 2-3x damage of other melee skills while being ranged and AoE, it's not rocket science GGG overdid it so half the damage and we are good.

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Turbodevil wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

If you want to nerf BF fine, but it needs to come with a nerf to about 30% of the game's other gems as well if that's the case. If those nerfs don't come, then neither should BF get nerfed. That is the simple fact myself and others are arguing.

All I hear is balance the game around imbalance, aka power creep. See Diablo 3 for reference where everything is doubled every patch to match (lol) other things. Realistically, players get stronger, content gets easier, and everyone feels pushed to play specific builds to progress, so build variety suffers.

I'd rather go the route of if it's op and broken, nerf it so it isn't and other options seem valiable

And before some smart guy points out that there is power creep in PoE, consider the scale dammit! Blade flurry deals 2-3x damage of other melee skills while being ranged and AoE, it's not rocket science GGG overdid it so half the damage and we are good.

+1

Nothing to add.

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Turbodevil wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

If you want to nerf BF fine, but it needs to come with a nerf to about 30% of the game's other gems as well if that's the case. If those nerfs don't come, then neither should BF get nerfed. That is the simple fact myself and others are arguing.

All I hear is balance the game around imbalance, aka power creep. See Diablo 3 for reference where everything is doubled every patch to match (lol) other things. Realistically, players get stronger, content gets easier, and everyone feels pushed to play specific builds to progress, so build variety suffers.

I'd rather go the route of if it's op and broken, nerf it so it isn't and other options seem valiable

And before some smart guy points out that there is power creep in PoE, consider the scale dammit! Blade flurry deals 2-3x damage of other melee skills while being ranged and AoE, it's not rocket science GGG overdid it so half the damage and we are good.

Ummm yeah dude, I'm sure you really only hear "balance around imbalance" when I literally said IN THE QUOTE YOU LINKED YOURSELF that I would be ok with 30% of the gems being nerfed.

No, you quite clearly just want to stir the shit and put words in people's mouths.

I am simply telling you not to fuck with blade flurry unless you ARE going to do those other nerfs. AND not introduce some other bullshit idea like what they did with blade vortex this league.

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Emphasy wrote:

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Oh Jesus, you know what you're right, I mean why should we have balance between builds or even between archetypes? Fuck it, just leave bv in fact why not just double the damage since balance clearly doesn't matter to you, it's totally ok for bv to be the only competitive skill apparently in your world.

So could you actually name those skills?

I highly doubt that there are even 10 skills better than Blade Flurry, and considering that basically everybody knows that BV is too strong I have a hard time finding one skill that is clearly outperforming Blade Flurry.

Skills that are better than BF in my opinion:
Spark into Vaal spark
Fireball into Vaal fireball
Flicker strike
Shield charge
Blade Vortex
Flameblast
Bladefall/bladefall mines
Essence drain
Explosive arrow
Fire nova mines (see the same guy at the top of HC temp league every season using it, it has to be somewhat good)
Most non-shitty damage bow builds

NOT ANCESTRAL WARCHIEF! I can't explain how there are so many warchief totems in the top 50, but it doesn't seem OP to me because of how slow it is. IDK how to explain that, and there's no evidence to support it, it's just my personal opinion. I think BF is better than ancestral warchief and worse than flicker strike. Fucking deal with it.

And there are a bunch like firestorm, freeze pulse, frostbolt etc which I think are probably just as good but I'm not sold on them being BETTER necessarily.

Some of these are just my opinions, like warchief, others are numerical fact (actually warchief has evidence to disprove my opinion, but yeah).

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Sure_K4y wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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Sure_K4y wrote:

No, it does not need to come with a nerf to other skills. Period.

Oh Jesus, you know what you're right, I mean why should we have balance between builds or even between archetypes? Fuck it, just leave bv in fact why not just double the damage since balance clearly doesn't matter to you, it's totally ok for bv to be the only competitive skill apparently in your world.

Why are you even discussing the skill gem balance at all if you apparently believe that nerfing one op gem shouldn't also come with nerfs to other op gems? This is a discussion primarily about skill gem balance and basically you're saying you don't give a shit about balance at all, you just want to make sure melee can't play the game.

I never said other skills shouldn't get nerfed at all.

Hey here's an idea, why don't you and your friends just spam obvious lies over and over. Cuz it isn't obvious by looking at the fucking quote chain that everything you just said is a fucking lie.

^Your reading comprehension is so far on the selective side, I don't know if there's any going back for you anymore.

Bladeflurry should get nerfed regardless of what other skills are being nerfed/buffed or not. Is that too difficult for you?

I really like Blade Flurry, even though it might not be "melee" by some people's definition. But, for melee skills to compete with the current caster meta in this game, this is pretty much what the skills have to be.

I think that Blade Flurry does need to be nerfed, however, not in a universal way. I wanted to test a hc viable build, and I'm currently running a block focused/dual wielding/claw/non-crit Gladiator. It's fantastic to have a skill that allows 1h weapons to do acceptable damage without having to go balls out crit.

We already have melee skills that dominate as 1h crit (Reave, Flicker, basically any of them). It would be nice to have one (Blade Flurry) that is specifically designed for non-crit/defensive builds. With that in mind, I'd suggest nerfing the skill by adding a tag such as "Extra critical strike damage reduced by 50%". This would also have the added benefit of increasing the popularity of claws and 1h swords. In fact, I think that eliminating daggers as an option for the skill would also be a good idea.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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Sure_K4y wrote:

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Sure_K4y wrote:

No, it does not need to come with a nerf to other skills. Period.

I never said other skills shouldn't get nerfed at all.

Hey here's an idea, why don't you and your friends just spam obvious lies over and over. Cuz it isn't obvious by looking at the fucking quote chain that everything you just said is a fucking lie.

LAWL FAWKING LAWL... I was about to quote this very same thing, well done Legatus. +1