[Vendor Suggestions Updated] 2 Sleek Vendor User Interfaces (mock-up images to show suggestions)

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Vhlad wrote:

After a player purchases or acquires a gem, they will still be able to mouse over it and see "support" in the tag. It's absolutely unnecessary (and horrible looking) for all the support gems to have "support" at the end of their name. New players are still confused by the skill system so adding support to everything fixed nothing and made it all harder to read. If ggg wants more differentiation between support skills and active skills there are better ways to do it than adding "active" or "support" to the name of everything.

You make a good point there (I overlooked that), so I have updated the Vendor Image to reflect that suggested change.

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Vhlad wrote:

First there is no active tag. Second, I never suggested to remove support from skill tags. Only from the name (so melee damage on full life support becomes melee damage on full life, like it used to be before GGG tried to bandage their lack of tutorial/new player guidance with skill naming aids).

True.

That being said, I never said you suggested GGG should remove the Support 'tag' itself. My reply at the time was based on your suggestion to remove the 'Support' keyword from the name of Support Skills, and now that I think about it, yea, it makes sense, so thank you for bringing that up.

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silumit wrote:

The problem is, new interface looks good and easy to use, like modern online store.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Creating a more modern UI is not a problem, it is a solution.

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silumit wrote:

But the vendors in the game are ragged, unwashed hobos selling shit which lies in piles near them, just as it looks like in current version of the UI. So GGG will not implement your suggestion because in will be "anti-immersive".

Just because the Vendors themselves in-game are ragged doesn't mean the Vendor UI itself should reflect their ragged nature. You can't be serious... That's like saying because a grocery store looks ragged the company should maintain its outdated computer systems OR because a grocery store's outdated computer systems are ragged the company's store should maintain a ragged curb appeal.

That makes zero sense. This is 2016, not 1999-2000.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

That makes no sense whatsoever.
<...>
That makes zero sense.

That's exactly how GGG's answer would look. Remember their posts about performance in rainy areas?

Some great ideas here. I hate having to alt-tab to see what gems are available at different levels etc. This UI change would solve that.

Keep up the good work!

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

That makes no sense whatsoever.
<...>

That makes zero sense.

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silumit wrote:

That's exactly how GGG's answer would look. Remember their posts about performance in rainy areas?

Except my answers / replies involved more than just "That makes no sense whatsoever." and "That makes zero sense." Those were just my conclusions after making a few points.

How about quoting everything I said instead of only parts and respond accordingly?

Wasn't adding "support" to the name of skill gems part of a patch? It was to cut down on confusion, and it definitely needed to happen. It was really confusing to new players and caused a lot of questions in global.

I think the whole system of skill gem acquisition needs to change. It used to be kind of a "use what you can find" game with gems. They've changed that now and it's more of a free for all, with a slight inconvenience to acquire off-class gems.

How about a system of unlocking gems? And once they're unlocked, any character can access them. I like OP's catalog. Maybe each gem could require more specific crafting materials, and you go to some kind of forge and craft the gems you need.

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HippieRonin wrote:

I like OP's catalog.

Thank you, though I did create an alternative Item Grid System.

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HippieRonin wrote:

Wasn't adding "support" to the name of skill gems part of a patch? It was to cut down on confusion, and it definitely needed to happen. It was really confusing to new players and caused a lot of questions in global.

Pardon my late reply.

I do not recall that being part of a Patch, but yes, I can see where that scenario can happen like I initially brought up to Vhlad on Page 1 even before you mentioned a possible Patch in the past.

Not everyone (notably new players) actually looks at the 'tags' themselves on the gems, so if that was a Patch made in the past, GGG probably did it so new players immediately knew within Skill Gem names which ones are Support gems vs. which gems are not Support gems without 'Support' on them.

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HippieRonin wrote:

I think the whole system of skill gem acquisition needs to change. It used to be kind of a "use what you can find" game with gems. They've changed that now and it's more of a free for all, with a slight inconvenience to acquire off-class gems.

Despite Class-restricted gems, I actually do believe the current way to acquire gems is just fine because it creates a connection between players when they need to ask friends or guild members for gems they cannot acquire for their Class. Not only that, every gem not being acquirable by any Class also encourages players to play other classes who can use those gems.

Furthermore (for the most part), the way Quests distribute gems to certain Classes inadvertently acts as a guide to encourage players to play a class how it should be. For example, it would not make sense if gems like Explosive Arrow and Split Arrow were available to the Marauder Class even though, technically, you can make a really off-the-wall Marauder Bow build if you really wanted to.

The main thing that really needs to change in the current Vendor System is for it to be more informative (as seen in the OP) in the event a Class cannot use certain gems where information is given about what Classes actually can use those gems, and in the event players need to complete certain Quests to acquire certain gems where information is given about what Quests to complete.

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HippieRonin wrote:

How about a system of unlocking gems? And once they're unlocked, any character can access them.

For already said reasons, I do not think every gem being available to every Class makes sense.

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HippieRonin wrote:

Maybe each gem could require more specific crafting materials, and you go to some kind of forge and craft the gems you need.

I do not agree with that approach because all that will do is complicate the complication further.

Gems requiring Quest completion to acquire them is a fair trade-off and it encourages players to actually play the game so they can progress in the right direction.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

Thank you, though I did create an alternative Item Grid System.

Ah, I see that now. I prefer the list personally.

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Despite Class-restricted gems, I actually do believe the current way to acquire gems is just fine because it creates a connection between players when they need to ask friends or guild members for gems they cannot acquire for their Class. Not only that, every gem not being acquirable by any Class also encourages players to play other classes who can use those gems.

Uh... I just made three classes and spent a few hours completing Nomal (and eventually ran them through maps). The "connection" between players is trivial. Post message in chat. Party invite. Trade. "Ty" "Ty" Party disbanded. That's nothing worth preserving.

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Furthermore (for the most part), the way Quests distribute gems to certain Classes inadvertently acts as a guide to encourage players to play a class how it should be.

I feel the game has moved away from that. It's now about creativity, crafting builds based on all the resources available. Whether a gem is off-class is not even a consideration anymore. It's meaningless.

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HippieRonin wrote:

Maybe each gem could require more specific crafting materials, and you go to some kind of forge and craft the gems you need.

I do not agree with that approach because all that will do is complicate the complication further.

It does the opposite, simplifies it. Instead of doing wiki research and running around the acts to talk to different vendors, you just go to a forge that shows the gems you can craft and what materials you need.

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Gems requiring Quest completion to acquire them is a fair trade-off and it encourages players to actually play the game so they can progress in the right direction.

That sounds like a first time player's thought process. It hasn't even crossed my mind at all. I theory craft a build, speed run through the game, and pick up the gems I need along the way, occasionally switching classes to pick up off-class gems.

Think of PoE as a sandbox class creator. You have all the tools available, and it's up to you to develop a combination that works, using all the resources at your disposal.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

Thank you, though I did create an alternative Item Grid System.

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HippieRonin wrote:

Ah, I see that now. I prefer the list personally.

Pardon my late reply.

I prefer the Item List System, too, but I decided to design an alternative Item Grid System since it is quite apparent GGG does not really favor Item List Systems, perhaps because Item List Systems are tougher to implement.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

Despite Class-restricted gems, I actually do believe the current way to acquire gems is just fine because it creates a connection between players when they need to ask friends or guild members for gems they cannot acquire for their Class. Not only that, every gem not being acquirable by any Class also encourages players to play other classes who can use those gems.

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HippieRonin wrote:

Uh... I just made three classes and spent a few hours completing Normal (and eventually ran them through maps). The "connection" between players is trivial. Post message in chat. Party invite. Trade. "Ty" "Ty" Party disbanded. That's nothing worth preserving.

*Shrugs* To each his/her own. I run my own Guild and whatnot, so perhaps our in-game communication experience differs. I am constantly connecting with other players whether they are in my Guild or not, so I enjoy that kind of player connection no matter how trivial it may be to other players.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

Furthermore (for the most part), the way Quests distribute gems to certain Classes inadvertently acts as a guide to encourage players to play a class how it should be.

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HippieRonin wrote:

I feel the game has moved away from that. It's now about creativity, crafting builds based on all the resources available. Whether a gem is off-class is not even a consideration anymore. It's meaningless.

While I agree with you to a certain degree, the reality is GGG does not want to make it easy for new or even experienced players to be 'creative'. Therefore, the game encourages players to strive toward creative goals rather than being served their creative goals on a silver platter.

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HippieRonin wrote:

Maybe each gem could require more specific crafting materials, and you go to some kind of forge and craft the gems you need.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

I do not agree with that approach because all that will do is complicate the complication further.

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HippieRonin wrote:

It does the opposite, simplifies it. Instead of doing wiki research and running around the acts to talk to different vendors, you just go to a forge that shows the gems you can craft and what materials you need.

I can find common ground at least to some degree on other things you've mentioned, except the above quoted from you. Why? For someone who suggests GGG simplify the game to an almost easy-mode level more than it already is, how does requiring MORE materials other than simple currency any simpler than the system we have now?

At least with the current system, you can quickly ask a friend, guild members or PM someone on poe.trade for a gem you need whereas the crafting system you speak of to acquire gems sounds even more like a chore for every gem you need.

With those above stated things in mind, in response to the underlined part in the above quoted from you, the Vendor UI System I propose completely does away with having to Wiki anything while still maintaining the system we currently, just done a little better. The Vendor UI System I propose tells players what Class can buy what gems, and in the event players still cannot buy certain gems, they are told what Quest(s) to complete or that they have insufficient funds to buy those gems.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

Gems requiring Quest completion to acquire them is a fair trade-off and it encourages players to actually play the game so they can progress in the right direction.

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HippieRonin wrote:

That sounds like a first time player's thought process. It hasn't even crossed my mind at all. I theory craft a build, speed run through the game, and pick up the gems I need along the way, occasionally switching classes to pick up off-class gems.

Just because what I pointed out has not crossed your mind in particular does not mean it does not or will not cross the minds of a broad number of players beyond just yourself. Therefore, when devising certain mechanics, etc. in a game, yes, it is more smart than not smart to acknowledge a 'first time player's' thought process.

Now, am I saying GGG considers a 'first time player's' thought process all the time with PoE's many behind-the-scenes shortcuts/commands, etc.? Absolutely not, but the few systems GGG does have in place that do consider a 'first time player's' thought process should remain the way they are for said reasons.

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HippieRonin wrote:

Think of PoE as a sandbox class creator. You have all the tools available, and it's up to you to develop a combination that works, using all the resources at your disposal.

We can agree to disagree here. I personally do not want the game (or any game) handing me 'all the tools' I need because all that will do at the end of the day is make you obtain your creative goals too quickly, and then when there is nothing else to look forward to when you have everything, you will likely get bored with the game at a quicker rate than you otherwise would at a slower rate.

It kind of follows the 'gain the world and lose your soul' psychology that is not fully understood until it finally happens to you, and then is when it hits you, so what is the rush? Is having all tools at your dispoal really what you want? Think about that for a minute given the aforementioned bigger picture point of view from someone who has already experienced the situation more than once...

For visual improvements I would like this. As long as people can only see the gems and cant buy them till they meet the required conditions.

It could be problematic having 1 npc selling gems as presented in OP along with the normal stuff they sell, that would make the npc have about 5 tabs. I don't know if that could cause technical problems or not for GGG.