I've noticed that with tornado shot you don't really need to use barrage at least for mapping, I honestly like the skill better than barrage overall because of how barrage 'locks you in place'
I'm 88, still not died once so the build is definitely HC viable. Although my gear is probably on the higher end spectrum
Spoiler
Would like to get a better belt but overall am happy with this setup. If only a headhunter could drop..
Looked at your tree why don't you take the life leech nodes? what's your hideout TT dps atm. Guess to also ask if your don't have tornado enchant wouldn't LA be better tll then?
haven't felt the need of more than .4 life and mana leech. I have the tornado enchant but even without it I preferred it over lightning arrow
Awesome build, this is the second league i am playing it. I'd like to input a bit of information and food for thought for players that play this and some feedback as well:
Basically, in terms of raw dmg output without any enchants TS outperforms Barrage by a mile. Surely there is an argument about the # of projectiles that would actually hit using either skill, however - with barrage to ensure you hit with all projectiles (since they spray out at a longer distance) you've gotta be pretending you've got Point Blank and get pretty close to the target. With TS you have +4 (legacy ROTC), +1 (corrupted drillneck), +2 secondary (helm enchant), +2 (Dying Sun flask) = a total of 9 secondary projectiles being fired. The chances of all 9 projectiles missing a boss is rather minuscule. Another bonus of TS - there's no need to actually aim at the target, you can fire off in the general direction and surely hit the boss with at least 6-8 projectiles easily.
Next point to consider - with TS you only need 1 6-linked item vs two (or 6L+5L). Moreover, +2 secondary TS proj helm enchant is about 2-3 ex as compared to +2 barrage projectiles at 7ish exalts.
In terms of AOE / map clears:
I personally feel that TS outperforms LA, there's an argument of shock vs more phys dmg -> more poison dmg, but DPS is sufficient to annihilate any pack anyway, so the DPS isn't an issue, the issue is utility. If the packs are tight and mobs come together - sure LA is efficient, however the moment you get stragglers coming in, or invasion boss or occasional beyond mobs spawning all over the place - TS actually is far more efficient in terms of clearing screen.
2) Temp chains vs Vulnerability
Spoiler
Running a curse on hit on the gloves, we can get corrupted snakebite gloves
Curse on hit with Vulnerability = 3+ exalts for unlinked
Curse on hit with Temporal Chains = 10c for fully linked (i got mine with right colors for 5c)
Taking my gear (linked in the next section) and plugging it into Path of Building with lvl 10 of both curses and using TS:
Vulnerability = 82'950 poison DPS
Temporal Chains = 63'017 poison DPS
However, this is not the end of the story! This is damage per second for a single stack of poison:
Vulnerability = 165'901 poison damage per stack of poison with 2 seconds duration
Temporal Chains = 210'057 poison damage per stack of poison with 3.3 seconds duration
With Temporal chains you are actually doing more overall damage by a fair margin, you are just doing that damage over 3.3 seconds instead of 2. Considering my 3.3 attacks per second, at max stacks of poison i am actually doing significantly more DPS with temp chains.
Vulnerability does not add anything to your survival while temporal chains helps. My personal preferred setup for this league is definitely temp chains!
correct me if im wrong but are you calculating in the fact that vulnerability makes the initial hit bigger thus making the poison stack bigger as well?
Assuming lvl 20 gems and a base damage of 1000
temporal chains would add a third tick onto the poison so 1000x.08= 80 dmg per tick x 3 = 240
with vulnerability 1000 dmg x 29%(increased physical dmg) = 1290 initial hit.
1290x.08 = 103 damage per second poison before dot buff.
33% increased damage over time so 103x1.33 = 137 damage per tick 2x 137 = 274
So based on this math temporal chains = 240 total damage per poison stack vulnerability = 274 damage per poison stack (plus a bigger initial hit of 290 damage
Last edited by Lordzero2#6853 on Apr 3, 2017, 12:54:44 PM
Hey, is devoto's used in this build because of the movement speed? How about using Starkonja's Head instead of devoto's? Would it be a good replacement, since I have one with 2 barrage projectiles.
Last edited by luckereq#5576 on Apr 3, 2017, 1:06:23 PM
correct me if im wrong but are you calculating in the fact that vulnerability makes the initial hit bigger thus making the poison stack bigger as well?
Assuming lvl 20 gems and a base damage of 1000
temporal chains would add a third tick onto the poison so 1000x.08= 80 dmg per tick x 3 = 240
with vulnerability 1000 dmg x 29%(increased physical dmg) = 1290 initial hit.
1290x.08 = 103 damage per second poison before dot buff.
33% increased damage over time so 103x1.33 = 137 damage per tick 2x 137 = 274
So based on this math temporal chains = 240 total damage per poison stack vulnerability = 274 damage per poison stack (plus a bigger initial hit of 290 damage
Don't forget that vulnerability gives physical dmg increase, and with this only like 25% of your initial hit is physical
Hey, is devoto's used in this build because of the movement speed? How about using Starkonja's Head instead of devoto's? Would it be a good replacement, since I have one with 2 barrage projectiles.
Yes it is used for the MS, i'd use the starkonja in your case.
correct me if im wrong but are you calculating in the fact that vulnerability makes the initial hit bigger thus making the poison stack bigger as well?
Assuming lvl 20 gems and a base damage of 1000
temporal chains would add a third tick onto the poison so 1000x.08= 80 dmg per tick x 3 = 240
with vulnerability 1000 dmg x 29%(increased physical dmg) = 1290 initial hit.
1290x.08 = 103 damage per second poison before dot buff.
33% increased damage over time so 103x1.33 = 137 damage per tick 2x 137 = 274
So based on this math temporal chains = 240 total damage per poison stack vulnerability = 274 damage per poison stack (plus a bigger initial hit of 290 damage
Don't forget that vulnerability gives physical dmg increase, and with this only like 25% of your initial hit is physical
Hey, is devoto's used in this build because of the movement speed? How about using Starkonja's Head instead of devoto's? Would it be a good replacement, since I have one with 2 barrage projectiles.
Gratz on that one! Yes use Starkonja's, it's very nice :). A more defensive option (and enchanted cheaper than Devoto's). I started out very poor and got one with +25% Lightning Arrow enchant. Plus I'm a noob at maps, not knowing the layouts and bosses yet, so I prefer moving below 900% movement speed anyway ;).
Awesome build, this is the second league i am playing it. I'd like to input a bit of information and food for thought for players that play this and some feedback as well:
Basically, in terms of raw dmg output without any enchants TS outperforms Barrage by a mile. Surely there is an argument about the # of projectiles that would actually hit using either skill, however - with barrage to ensure you hit with all projectiles (since they spray out at a longer distance) you've gotta be pretending you've got Point Blank and get pretty close to the target. With TS you have +4 (legacy ROTC), +1 (corrupted drillneck), +2 secondary (helm enchant), +2 (Dying Sun flask) = a total of 9 secondary projectiles being fired. The chances of all 9 projectiles missing a boss is rather minuscule. Another bonus of TS - there's no need to actually aim at the target, you can fire off in the general direction and surely hit the boss with at least 6-8 projectiles easily.
Next point to consider - with TS you only need 1 6-linked item vs two (or 6L+5L). Moreover, +2 secondary TS proj helm enchant is about 2-3 ex as compared to +2 barrage projectiles at 7ish exalts.
In terms of AOE / map clears:
I personally feel that TS outperforms LA, there's an argument of shock vs more phys dmg -> more poison dmg, but DPS is sufficient to annihilate any pack anyway, so the DPS isn't an issue, the issue is utility. If the packs are tight and mobs come together - sure LA is efficient, however the moment you get stragglers coming in, or invasion boss or occasional beyond mobs spawning all over the place - TS actually is far more efficient in terms of clearing screen.
2) Temp chains vs Vulnerability
Spoiler
Running a curse on hit on the gloves, we can get corrupted snakebite gloves
Curse on hit with Vulnerability = 3+ exalts for unlinked
Curse on hit with Temporal Chains = 10c for fully linked (i got mine with right colors for 5c)
Taking my gear (linked in the next section) and plugging it into Path of Building with lvl 10 of both curses and using TS:
Vulnerability = 82'950 poison DPS
Temporal Chains = 63'017 poison DPS
However, this is not the end of the story! This is damage per second for a single stack of poison:
Vulnerability = 165'901 poison damage per stack of poison with 2 seconds duration
Temporal Chains = 210'057 poison damage per stack of poison with 3.3 seconds duration
With Temporal chains you are actually doing more overall damage by a fair margin, you are just doing that damage over 3.3 seconds instead of 2. Considering my 3.3 attacks per second, at max stacks of poison i am actually doing significantly more DPS with temp chains.
Vulnerability does not add anything to your survival while temporal chains helps. My personal preferred setup for this league is definitely temp chains!
correct me if im wrong but are you calculating in the fact that vulnerability makes the initial hit bigger thus making the poison stack bigger as well?
Assuming lvl 20 gems and a base damage of 1000
temporal chains would add a third tick onto the poison so 1000x.08= 80 dmg per tick x 3 = 240
with vulnerability 1000 dmg x 29%(increased physical dmg) = 1290 initial hit.
1290x.08 = 103 damage per second poison before dot buff.
33% increased damage over time so 103x1.33 = 137 damage per tick 2x 137 = 274
So based on this math temporal chains = 240 total damage per poison stack vulnerability = 274 damage per poison stack (plus a bigger initial hit of 290 damage
Don't forget that vulnerability gives physical dmg increase, and with this only like 25% of your initial hit is physical
25%? where are you getting that number from.
I usually use Path of Building app for doing all the math for me. I'm pretty sure it does account for the larger initial hit. You can try to simulate it based on your own setup and see the numbers. Poison / dot damage as i understand isn't just 'ticks', so you aren't just getting an extra tick. It's a continuous degeneration, so you are actually getting an extra 1.3 seconds of degen on the mobs.
Based on pure empirical observations vs high HP bosses i can quite clearly see the initial DPS with vulnerability is higher, however when you get more stacks up within 2+ seconds on the target - the overall DPS with temp chains 'feels' higher.
In terms of breakdown of physical vs chaos dmg on the initial hit mine is at
physical - 929-3024 = 24%
chaos - 4169-8304 = 76%
That is with Atziri flask and without % chaos damage on jewelry (since i'm using rarity rolled instead - the dps is enough for my liking as is)
Also, we are talking about lvl 10-11 Vulnerability or Temporal Chains, you can't get a 'curse on hit with lvl 20 of X skill rolled on gloves'
Last edited by nieth79#5382 on Apr 3, 2017, 11:37:33 PM
What is more worth to buy, a lvl 20 added chaos damage with 20% quality or lvl 21 with 0 quality? Also does the quality massively boost the damage? Thanks in advance.
Last edited by luckereq#5576 on Apr 4, 2017, 2:15:10 AM
