Self found can use a bit of love

@scrotie thanks for a clear peaceful explanation. I agree some better vendor would help fix it, though most SF want the adrenaline spike from the drop to feel they achieved it themselves rather than just walking in town. That's why in the case of maps I personaly would be more interested in seeing an improvement in drops.

Just to make it clear I m not saying SF players should be equal to traders, of course trade has to be more efficient as a gear catchup & build enabler. Especially, they shouldnt change unique drop rates, those would always have their value and keep trading alive since they are the best build enablers. However maps prevent pure, simple game progression when your char can be strong enough to take them. Its an unecessary blocker once you have proven you can beat the maps, arbitrary way to increase game grind and keep players around.

SF players just want to be able to play the content of the game, they don't ask to be equally powerful as traders. Wether Trade fanatics want to play "inventory management, the simulation" is their problem. Fixing map drops wont take their fun away.

@ragnarokchu you re still entitled man. Yes you got some points with the opening paragraph & its logic GGG likes a living economy to force a social aspect to the game. Doesnt mean they want people to be forced to trade all the time to do any progress. As I said, if rarity mostly came from 6links & uniques, trade would still do fine.
I dont get your D2 ref, when I played the only economy in D2 was duplicating cheated items everywhere... Did they ever fix that?

"Trade simulator" is a definite trigger for me. Trade isn't simulated, it's a real economy of digital goods with real exchanges between real people. But what really triggers me is: the game has real, honest-to-goodness trade simulators - that's what NPC vendors are.

3:1 vendor formula for maps should be 2:1 so low map drops don't feel utterly worthless self-found. Tradehards get about that rate selling them to other players. But I find most of the self-found mapping stuff in this thread to be high on words and low on content.

Not sure what trade sim you're talking about.
But if you were replying to my inventory management comment, it was just to say trading is boring as shit cause its nothing but inventory management.

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Tempada wrote:

On a side note, I'd personally punch a baby and pay really good money for a moddable offline client that gets regular updates like the core game. I love Grim Dawn for this, but honestly PoE is far more engaging. And even if I could create perfect gear through mods, I would still spend inane amounts of time playing because there's so much to try (especially min/max) on my own, could be a lot to try with a community of modders, and there's so much to expect with future updates.

Oh my gosh, yes! Ok, not the baby punching part. I would never do that.

But an offline version of POE? I would pay for that!

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

the difference between not having chaos shards and having chaos shards is huge.

Isn't that pretty much what the Chaos formula is?

I mean, yeah, there's a difference. But not really a huge one.

There's a huge difference because a lot of players don't bother to do chaos recipe, it requires some management that many players refuse to engage in. I don't have any statistics obviously, but I guess less than 10% of players are actively running chaos recipe.
On the other hand, if you just had chaos shards when trading unided rares, everybody would do it, and there would be a huge chaos income in the in game economy. Now that might be a good or bad thing, I don't know, but it would happen for sure.

dbl post

Essence league's growing older and we're slowly creeping closer to the start of the next league. There's still plenty of time to make changes to improve the game both for self found players and for everyone else. Please don't forget about self found players, GGG. Please take steps (such as those suggested in the OP) to create a version of POE we can all enjoy.

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Dawmz wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

the difference between not having chaos shards and having chaos shards is huge.

Isn't that pretty much what the Chaos formula is?

I mean, yeah, there's a difference. But not really a huge one.

There's a huge difference because a lot of players don't bother to do chaos recipe, it requires some management that many players refuse to engage in. I don't have any statistics obviously, but I guess less than 10% of players are actively running chaos recipe.
On the other hand, if you just had chaos shards when trading unided rares, everybody would do it, and there would be a huge chaos income in the in game economy. Now that might be a good or bad thing, I don't know, but it would happen for sure.

Just wanted to say it's tweakable. 1 unidentified rare gives 1 Chaos shard, maybe it takes 20 shards to make one Chaos, maybe 50.

The Atlas manifesto post today covered zero of the problems the Atlas introduced for self found players. Being a second class citizen in POE feels pretty bad. Being stomped on and ignored is not fun.

I was looking forward to a manifesto post discussing improvements to the Atlas. Now I'm just sad that I'll probably never get to play POE again.

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Jennik wrote:

The Atlas manifesto post today covered zero of the problems the Atlas introduced for self found players. Being a second class citizen in POE feels pretty bad. Being stomped on and ignored is not fun.

I was looking forward to a manifesto post discussing improvements to the Atlas. Now I'm just sad that I'll probably never get to play POE again.

It's OK to not trade for maps, you just have to use the right terminology when complaining about it.

For eg:
If you say "The map system sucks for self-found players", GGG won't seem to care.
If you say "The map system sucks for sustaining maps", GGG will seem to care a lot, and will release like 50 patches to try to get the balance right. Even though 'sustaining' maps yourself is exactly the same as playing self-found.

So I guess we just need different terminology to complain about it. Instead of saying that It is hard for self-found players to unlock maps with the new system, just say it's hard for players to unlock maps with the new system. ;)