Self found can use a bit of love

"

Telzen wrote:

"

Jennik wrote:

Here's something I've mentioned in previous self found threads that I neglected to mention here:

Don't attack self found play. Don't attack self found players. Instead, for each of the complaints people have and each of the suggestions they give, defend the existing state of the game.

Also, and I know it's hard, but please do your best to comprehend the words people write and understand what they are actually saying. Nobody in this thread has asked GGG to balance the game around self found play. Still, a number of people have replied attacking that idea. Please stop doing that.

Then what are you asking them to do? I play solo self found and I think you're being ridiculous.

Thats the difference between having fun and understanding the the world doesnt revolve around you, and being entitled.

The funny thing is the solo self found RNG mechanism is already in place, if you dont like what youre getting then start Magic Finding, problem solved.

"

Telzen wrote:

Then what are you asking them to do? I play solo self found and I think you're being ridiculous.

I very clearly asked them to take self found play into account when balancing the game in order to create an end result that everyone can enjoy. Making changes that improve the game for everyone while also vastly improving the game for self found players in particular is not the same as balancing the game around self found play.

It's disappointing that some people can read the arguments put forth in this thread and all they're capable of responding with is "ur entitled." There's not much I can do to get through to them, though. That's out of my hands. What, in these people's minds, does "entitled" even mean?

Here's a few concrete suggestions:
1. 2 unidentified magic maps of same base vendor for 1 unidentified magic map of +1 tier. (Trade ratios tend to hover around 2:1 for +1 tier, sometimes 2.1:1, etc)
2. 2 unidentified rare maps of the same base vendor for 1 unidentified rare map of same tier.

"

Jennik wrote:

"

Telzen wrote:

Then what are you asking them to do? I play solo self found and I think you're being ridiculous.

I very clearly asked them to take self found play into account when balancing the game in order to create an end result that everyone can enjoy. Making changes that improve the game for everyone while also vastly improving the game for self found players in particular is not the same as balancing the game around self found play.

So "take self found play into account when balancing" and "balancing the game around self found play" aren't the same to you? What improvements could they make for self found play that doesn't effect the economy for everyone else? Self found is already easier than its ever been, you remember the time before gem vendors and all the buffs they did for unique drops right?

"

Telzen wrote:

So "take self found play into account when balancing" and "balancing the game around self found play" aren't the same to you?

Of course not, which should be super obvious. Balancing the game around self found play would include things like massively increasing unique availability so that self found players are easily capable of acquiring all of them in a reasonable amount of time. Trading would trivialize the game to completely absurd levels. Builds gated behind rarity, like Grand Spectrum Explosive Arrow, would become common.

POE is very obviously balanced around trading. The suggestions in the very first post in this thread would not change that in the slightest. They'd just make certain bad parts of the game stop being bad, which would improve the game for everybody while also improving the game for self found players to an even greater degree.

People are sitting here saying no one is suggesting game be balanced for self found. I fail to understand how you could believe that. Any change that benefits self found causes an economic problem that effects trading.

If they allow say skill gems for vendor for more to an npc, every player benefits from that. It causes an inflation of currency and causes currency values and exchange rates to drop.

If they added a vendor recipe to convert 2 unwanted identical maps for a tier higher instead of needing 3 maps that means more maps in circulation for every one, not just an easier time sustaining a map pool as solo self found. This means map values will drop as well, especially with the new atlas system where people only want the maps with a good layout and mob density.

What if no gems were drop only and all quest rewards for skill gems were also available from npc vendors. That effects everyone not just SSF and more importantly racing. The reason some skills are quest rewards only is to prevent other class' from using it during a race. I am sure you can imagine the problems with racing if they changed that.

What other changes could benefit SSF players without causing economic or gameplay problems that effect everyone. Genuinely think about that. They increased shavs wrappings drop rate by only 5x and its price dropped from 80ex to 1ex over night. You must understand the effects of seemingly small and insignificant changes.

The best love self found could get is accessible, supported bartering/trading in-game.

I don't think the majority of self-found players do it for "the challenge";
they do it as an adaptation to very poorly integrated and supported trade.

Of course, more deterministic loot is a nice pipe dream for those of use
who don't care for such blatantly forced economies.

"

Jennik wrote:

"

Telzen wrote:

So "take self found play into account when balancing" and "balancing the game around self found play" aren't the same to you?

Of course not, which should be super obvious. Balancing the game around self found play would include things like massively increasing unique availability so that self found players are easily capable of acquiring all of them in a reasonable amount of time. Trading would trivialize the game to completely absurd levels. Builds gated behind rarity, like Grand Spectrum Explosive Arrow, would become common.

POE is very obviously balanced around trading. The suggestions in the very first post in this thread would not change that in the slightest. They'd just make certain bad parts of the game stop being bad, which would improve the game for everybody while also improving the game for self found players to an even greater degree.

The game is either balanced around trading and playing self found has a big falloff after a certain period or it's balanced around self found and trading trivializes everything with a collapsed economy.

There is no inbetween.

Get over it.

"

Nykken wrote:

The game is either balanced around trading and playing self found has a big falloff after a certain period or it's balanced around self found and trading trivializes everything with a collapsed economy.

There is no inbetween.

Um, yeah there is.

I'm not an advocate of the in-between, mind you. I'm for improvements to self-found which either have little or no impact on the economy, or which are better game design for everyone. I believe the trading form of the game should take priority. But you're saying watered-down fence-sitting compromise is impossible. But it is possible. It's just unwise.

I still self-identify as a self-found centrist, though. It's just that I believe in principled solutions rather than hypocritical half-measures. I guess I'm a trade-leaning centrist.

"

Jgizle wrote:

What other changes could benefit SSF players without causing economic or gameplay problems that effect everyone?

"Problems."

See, this is yet another case where as soon as you say the words "self found," everyone's brains start falling out. Suddenly every single change is a problem that will destroy the game. Better gem availability, which tons of players have asked for, the majority of whom don't even play self found? Game-killing problem. Won't somebody think of the races?!

It's absurd. How can one even argue against this level of misplaced concern? How can one possibly reason with this level of anti-self found paranoia? I don't believe one can, so I don't believe I'll try.

As usual in these threads, I'll just shake my head sadly and walk away disappointed.

Sigh.