Self found can use a bit of love

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Jennik wrote:

I want to thank everybody, even the people posting absurd straw man arguments who completely missed every single point made in the thread, for keeping the conversation alive. Thanks for the bumps!

The change to zana did wonders for SSF players. It has boosted me considerably.

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goetzjam wrote:

The ignorance of comments like yours reflects on the SSF community poorly, no wonder why almost every thread that has QQs about SSF result in the typical, you choose to play the game in an unintended fashion, why should GGG make changes for that sort of playstyle?

There's a large portion of the community that would prefer to never engage in the player economy, and there's nothing wrong with reminding GGG of this as the game develops. It's not about ignorance; it's about frustration with a game that has all the core mechanics right but doesn't provide a satisfying solo experience.

You're right about gimping yourself horribly if you don't trade (unless you like the "challenge", a word I use loosely since it's so heavily based on randomness), but trade is kinda awful if you don't give a damn about flipping items and just want to fight and get cool loot drops. I understand people that want to play this game SSF. I don't get the bitterness from other players directed toward those who are pushing for an experience that better suits their interests, especially when GGG has already toyed with the idea of custom leagues.

On a side note, I'd personally punch a baby and pay really good money for a moddable offline client that gets regular updates like the core game. I love Grim Dawn for this, but honestly PoE is far more engaging. And even if I could create perfect gear through mods, I would still spend inane amounts of time playing because there's so much to try (especially min/max) on my own, could be a lot to try with a community of modders, and there's so much to expect with future updates.

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Tempada wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

The ignorance of comments like yours reflects on the SSF community poorly, no wonder why almost every thread that has QQs about SSF result in the typical, you choose to play the game in an unintended fashion, why should GGG make changes for that sort of playstyle?

There's a large portion of the community that would prefer to never engage in the player economy, and there's nothing wrong with reminding GGG of this as the game develops. It's not about ignorance; it's about frustration with a game that has all the core mechanics right but doesn't provide a satisfying solo experience.

You're right about gimping yourself horribly if you don't trade (unless you like the "challenge", a word I use loosely since it's so heavily based on randomness), but trade is kinda awful if you don't give a damn about flipping items and just want to fight and get cool loot drops. I understand people that want to play this game SSF. I don't get the bitterness from other players directed toward those who are pushing for an experience that better suits their interests, especially when GGG has already toyed with the idea of custom leagues.

On a side note, I'd personally punch a baby and pay really good money for a moddable offline client that gets regular updates like the core game. I love Grim Dawn for this, but honestly PoE is far more engaging. And even if I could create perfect gear through mods, I would still spend inane amounts of time playing because there's so much to try (especially min/max) on my own, could be a lot to try with a community of modders, and there's so much to expect with future updates.

Okay here's the deal right, when you make suggestions on threads for a niche playstyle that goes against the grain of how the game is meant to be played.

You don't go into the mentality of us vs them or put people into "groups" that are against each other, because you never win.

How you go about it is suggesting improvements that uses the developers time to improve the game in general for everyone. Why would the develop use my money and their time on developing features that I or other people wouldn't use for a different group of people.

If the game is a multiplayer, ladder based game based on economy. I support the game because of the reason, and I don't expect any other updates other to improve that game in that fashion.

Do you know why Zana is in the game? On top of vastly improving the game for all players, it also happens to vastly even improve a self found players gameplay too.

Master crafting? An improvement in the game in general, but also a massive boon to self-found player.

Gem vendors? Was ridiculously annoying for the average person, also another massive boon to a self-found player.

But when people make threads stamping their feet to "pay attention to the Way I play" which deliberately doesn't use features or does things how the game is suppose to be played, and asking for special focus for their direct decision in the game to play that way. Then obviously people are going to say something.

If you want to support customs leagues sure, since everyone can do whatever they want in their own custom leagues or version of their own game. Don't just front it as "we should have custom leagues because of self-found".

@ScrotieMcB I think your missing the main factor of the sheer amount of acutal decent to usable items vendored because people couldn't be half assed to sell them, and the fact that a large portion of the amount of currency you make is from alterations shards.

It would just hyperinflate the market, and do nothing for a self-found player since they can't farm the sheer amount of items of an entire ecomony. I might farm sell 10 1-chaos items in a week but I can easily farm dozens of more chaos/fusings/ect in alterations.

I mean the sheer amount of 6-link items isn't from people directly farming fusings or trading for fusings ;v

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If solo + self found is "a niche playstyle that goes against the grain of how the game is meant to be played", then why did GGG make two very popular (far too short) back to back short leagues exactly as that?

I think you don't know anything about how GGG feels the game is meant to be played.

Two short fun leagues that everyone can play for fun is "proof" instead of, what devs literally posted in the developer manifesto, the ladders + standard/hardcore leagues for multiple years, what the developers said themselves.

Also

https://www.pathofexile.com/game


Literally, the first paragraph when you click to learn more about the game? Even more so when it's directly inspired by diablo 2 ladder multiplayer which the devs are fans of and what made them want to create path of exile.

Do you guys have blinders or something.

This is like me saying PoE is pvp focused/pvp based game because they had a couple short PVP leagues and a couple of patches focused on PVP. (well also a assortment of items and PVP only balance)

LOL, But at least I could say they put a hell a lot more effort into PVP then "self found" players.

Like I don't even understand how you get Prophecy leagues or Perandus leagues as specifically for "solo/self found" players because they were testing new mechanics to allow players to grow their items or achieve upgrades in various manners other than just farming orbs. One was quest based and the other was a new currency.

This current league is the same thing but attempting to introduce new types of orbs/currency for item crafting.

Just because it helps "solo/self found" doesn't mean it was made with you in mind, I already gave examples like zana/gem vendors/ect that greatly helped everyone on top of being a massive boost to self found.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

@ScrotieMcB I think your missing the main factor of the sheer amount of acutal decent to usable items vendored because people couldn't be half assed to sell them, and the fact that a large portion of the amount of currency you make is from alterations shards.

I firmly believe vendor offers should always be in terms of currency which can actually craft the item in question. Should still be Trans/Alt shards for magic items, but should be Chance shards for uniques, Alch shards for identified rares, Chaos shard for unidentified rares. Making players jump through hoops with the Chaos formula is bad design IMHO.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

It would just hyperinflate the market, and do nothing for a self-found player since they can't farm the sheer amount of items of an entire ecomony. I might farm sell 10 1-chaos items in a week but I can easily farm dozens of more chaos/fusings/ect in alterations.

First, a nitpick - it's silly to act as if trading makes every other player in the game your personal loot bitch. If you don't have value to offer, trading won't offer you value back.

More importantly, I'm not arguing if trade should have an advantage over self-found; I'm arguing how much advantage is proper. Will any suggestion I make bring about equality? No - and I do not intend it to. The game should push players towards trade. The question I'm asking is: should it be a hand gently placed in the small of one's back, or a violent shove? At what point is incentive sufficient, and further advantage overkill?

I know in today's social-media culture it's all the rage to take extreme positions, but I self-identify as a self-found centrist. I'm against extremism on both sides of the issue.

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I firmly believe vendor offers should always be in terms of currency which can actually craft the item in question. Should still be Trans/Alt shards for magic items, but should be Chance shards for uniques, Alch shards for identified rares, Chaos shard for unidentified rares. Making players jump through hoops with the Chaos formula is bad design IMHO.

But you can't craft an unid rare with chaos orbs, so even following your design logic that doesn't make sense.

The chaos\unid chaos recipe is actually a cleaver design, however it is in no way mandatory for anyone to use it to play the game or even play the game well. I personally only use it when I get the prophecy for the extra chaos orb, otherwise maybe the start of the league if I am desperate.

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goetzjam wrote:

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I firmly believe vendor offers should always be in terms of currency which can actually craft the item in question. Should still be Trans/Alt shards for magic items, but should be Chance shards for uniques, Alch shards for identified rares, Chaos shard for unidentified rares. Making players jump through hoops with the Chaos formula is bad design IMHO.

But you can't craft an unid rare with chaos orbs, so even following your design logic that doesn't make sense.

The chaos\unid chaos recipe is actually a cleaver design, however it is in no way mandatory for anyone to use it to play the game or even play the game well. I personally only use it when I get the prophecy for the extra chaos orb, otherwise maybe the start of the league if I am desperate.

I think you are being unnecessarily pedantic there. (And I say that as someone who by nature is usually pretty pedantic!) Both alchs and chaos orbs can craft rares. The unid vs id distinction was just a nifty idea to try and map the current vendor value of the item on to the new system Scrotie was proposing. I guess you could suggest alchs for unided rares (since 5 alcs + some trash items = an id rare) and chaos for IDed ones, but that doesn't preserve the value in the same way.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

I think you are being unnecessarily pedantic there. (And I say that as someone who by nature is usually pretty pedantic!) Both alchs and chaos orbs can craft rares. The unid vs id distinction was just a nifty idea to try and map the current vendor value of the item on to the new system Scrotie was proposing. I guess you could suggest alchs for unided rares (since 5 alcs + some trash items = an id rare) and chaos for IDed ones, but that doesn't preserve the value in the same way.

Maybe, but the difference between not having chaos shards and having chaos shards is huge. This game already has a good demand for chaos and ways to get it, yes some people find it cumbersome but its there for a reason. If you could just not ID things and get chaos shards then chaos become even more inflated then those that just do the unid chaos recipe and the value of ex would like reach extreme amounts in chaos as a result. Furthermore things based on chaos cost would have to cost more, zana mods, master crafting, ect essentially making the whole change pointless in the process.

I don't understand how anyone can really have an issue with the current method to get chaos via recipe, instead of a shard method that just rewards players for not IDing items and mass vendoring shit for chaos.

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goetzjam wrote:

the difference between not having chaos shards and having chaos shards is huge.

Isn't that pretty much what the Chaos formula is?

I mean, yeah, there's a difference. But not really a huge one.