Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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Clownkrieger wrote:

1) in your answer on emphasys post, where he (or she) discussed different possibilities how the statistics that were in question could have been gathered and interpreted, and where she repeated - what others said before - that it would be your task to prove your claim that those statistics have been manipulated to make the lab appear in the top 10 at all (which you claimed here), you wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

It also does not prove what the GGG motivation is but you folks pretending that it doesn't say what it says seems pretty silly.

- i simply asked of you to quote where anybody in this thread "pretended" (aside from some clearly as speculation labeled... speculations) something else as the list states - that an instance called aspirants trial is the 7th most created instance in breach.

- and, since you were it who pretended the statistics were manipulated with a certain motivation, i would like to know - as you have come to the conclusion, that the statistic itself gives no account for gggs motivation whatsoever - how you stand to that claim of yours now.

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Clownkrieger wrote:

2) in your reply to Jgizle about playernumbers/majorities, you wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

... this idea that 50% of the people need to want a change is silly. It is not a democracy. GGG is a company. GGG will decide to do something based on what they think, not some electoral process where people vote and GGG tallys votes to see if there's at least 50% voting for something. [...] Your majority assumption is made up nonsense. A figure you have pulled out of thin air, meaningless blather, worthless numbers, irrational thinking. Sorry, but that's plain and simple.

- if that is the case, i would like to know what exactly your motivation is to gather a list of "supporters" (and constantly imply that there is a majority who dislikes lab) to demand changes to the lab?

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ok, i hope ive made clear what im asking you now. excuse the lengthy text, but im not used to catchy phrases and english is not my native language :)


Clown

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The purpose of this list is not meant to "tag" anyone into any particular camp. It is meant primarily to demonstrate that many people have things about labyrinth that they think can be improved upon. Unlike the false assertions by some that have argued against any need to fix this problem there are far more than the 5, 10, or 20 that they incorrectly asserted have posted in support of changes. This list blows those silly assertions out of the water.

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Sorry, you are apparently mixing me up with others. I agree with their conclusions that adding together all difficulty instances and basically multiplying by 3 because there's three instances of aspirants trial per successful labyrinth run was likely purposely misleading for that list of top 10. I would guess that it's more likely motivated by politics internal to GGG rather than trying to really deceive the player base though.

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The motivation is given in the OP of this thread. I call it the "purpose" in the OP rather than the motivation.

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Emphasy wrote:

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Sorry, you are apparently mixing me up with others. I agree with their conclusions that adding together all difficulty instances and basically multiplying by 3 because there's three instances of aspirants trial per successful labyrinth run was likely purposely misleading for that list of top 10. I would guess that it's more likely motivated by politics internal to GGG rather than trying to really deceive the player base though.

The thing is that list was purely a fun little statistic, which shouldn't require much work to create so someone just pulled the names and created a list which of course due to the nature of those instances inflates the number for lab and maps. But then again the fact that people just create instances to look for master missions or side areas or to farm Voll is also not accounted for. Since they didn't create the list to proof anything or to use it for any argument it doesn't have to be too well made, again similar to the Hailrake deaths. The only interesting thing you can pull from that list is that Coast is in there, but not any other normal area.

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Emphasy wrote:

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The motivation is given in the OP of this thread. I call it the "purpose" in the OP rather than the motivation.

Yeah the motivation again... which is at odds with itself, because a lot of those required fixes were made, yet the threads are still counted even though. Things like making Trials league wide were done, ES was fixed, even though I'm not even sure it was necessary, undoable layouts were fixed. And 3.0 likely brings some further changes because the points somehow have to be redistributed, which is likely the last change for a long time the lab will see.

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Turtledove wrote:

Regarding the "pretended" word, I guess here you're quibbling over the use of the word? We can replace that word with "assertions" or something if that makes you more comfortable?

Sorry, you are apparently mixing me up with others. I agree with their conclusions that adding together all difficulty instances and basically multiplying by 3 because there's three instances of aspirants trial per successful labyrinth run was likely purposely misleading for that list of top 10. I would guess that it's more likely motivated by politics internal to GGG rather than trying to really deceive the player base though.

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Turtledove wrote:

I think what The_Reporter is referring to is earlier in this thread (IIRC) it was pointed out that the trials have all been bunched together for all of the different difficulties whereas the other areas on the list are divided by difficulty, in an apparent "fudging" of the stats to make the Labyrinth even appear in the top ten.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Clownkrieger wrote:

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The motivation is given in the OP of this thread. I call it the "purpose" in the OP rather than the motivation.

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The purpose of this list is not meant to "tag" anyone into any particular camp. It is meant primarily to demonstrate that many people have things about labyrinth that they think can be improved upon. Unlike the false assertions by some that have argued against any need to fix this problem there are far more than the 5, 10, or 20 that they incorrectly asserted have posted in support of changes. This list blows those silly assertions out of the water.

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Clownkrieger wrote:

your really good at avoiding "concrete" answers, i give you that. your not a politician, are you? :)

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Turtledove wrote:

Regarding the "pretended" word, I guess here you're quibbling over the use of the word? We can replace that word with "assertions" or something if that makes you more comfortable?

Sorry, you are apparently mixing me up with others. I agree with their conclusions that adding together all difficulty instances and basically multiplying by 3 because there's three instances of aspirants trial per successful labyrinth run was likely purposely misleading for that list of top 10. I would guess that it's more likely motivated by politics internal to GGG rather than trying to really deceive the player base though.

we can quibble over words, if you like :) it doesnt change the fact, that you "asserted" people where doing something, and used that to denounce them as "silly". im still waiting for a proof of that assertions of yours.

and no, im not mixing you up with others. you not only "assert" like others that all instances where added up by ggg, you obvioulsy also go with their "assertion" that it was deliberately done to fix up the stats to imply something that isnt the case. let me quote you, since i cant expect of you to still know what you wrote or read old posts i linked again:

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Turtledove wrote:

I think what The_Reporter is referring to is earlier in this thread (IIRC) it was pointed out that the trials have all been bunched together for all of the different difficulties whereas the other areas on the list are divided by difficulty, in an apparent "fudging" of the stats to make the Labyrinth even appear in the top ten.

(bolding by me)


your use of the word "apparent" indicates that it should be there for all to see, or not? so did they fix the stats to "fudge" something or not? and if there is no proof of that, then what have you done with your "assertion" they did?

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Turtledove wrote:

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Clownkrieger wrote:

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The motivation is given in the OP of this thread. I call it the "purpose" in the OP rather than the motivation.

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The purpose of this list is not meant to "tag" anyone into any particular camp. It is meant primarily to demonstrate that many people have things about labyrinth that they think can be improved upon. Unlike the false assertions by some that have argued against any need to fix this problem there are far more than the 5, 10, or 20 that they incorrectly asserted have posted in support of changes. This list blows those silly assertions out of the water.

as emphasy mentioned, many of the problems have been fixed. what stays throughout this thread is your and others dislike of "trap-gameplay". wich is an opinion/personal taste, but no problem of the lab and definetly nothing ggg can fix.
maybe you have issues with my use of the word "motivation"? again, if this is not a democracy and gg tallies no votes to make their decisions, and majority assumptions are nonsense, blather, worthless, irrational, what is the motivation behind/ the sense in collecting a list of people who posted in "support of change" and to repeat that "the list grows longer, our cause gets stronger"-stuff everytime someone new joins in?

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Clownkrieger wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I think what The_Reporter is referring to is earlier in this thread (IIRC) it was pointed out that the trials have all been bunched together for all of the different difficulties whereas the other areas on the list are divided by difficulty, in an apparent "fudging" of the stats to make the Labyrinth even appear in the top ten.

(bolding by me)


your use of the word "apparent" indicates that it should be there for all to see, or not? so did they fix the stats to "fudge" something or not? and if there is no proof of that, then what have you done with your "assertion" they did?

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Turtledove wrote:

I was trying to explain what The_Reporters point of view was. Apparent means that it sure looks like GGG combined all difficulties and multiplied by three in order to get the number of instances up so that it appear on the list. If you have problems with that then I can't help you?