Enchantements % increased damage and DoTs

oooooooooh ok :3
you are referring to the "% more damage per stage" which doesnt improve ignite/poison.
it doesnt enlighten me for the enchants:

If they apply as generic "% increased damage when the skilled is used" or very specific "% increased restricted to the damage done by skill itself" ?

If they work the same than incinerate stage and flameblast, it's probably specific to the skill only so it doesnt improve dots. Ok :P But still unsure, raics thinks it does.

Myself i dont really know, you have a reliable knowledge about poe mechanics but the wording of thoses enchants are so tricky c_c

Ok, tested it last night with Bronn's Lithe. If I'm right, the enchantment bonus 'inc damage to skill if it's incinerate' would be implemented the same way as the bonus on Bronn 'inc damage to skill if it's movement type'.

So it seems to be working properly, got a 47% inc Bronn, Oro and Chance to ignite on leap slam, it was a blank char so none other bonuses were there to interfere except for 1 frenzy charge I had in both runs from igniting. Having 47% inc damage with no other bonuses means I should be getting 2,16 times more damage from ignite assuming it double dips and it was the case, for instance on one of the runs I got ~420 points* of total damage from ignite and with the armor on I got ~890.

* some unrelated points that the tool was calibrated for, the exact amount doesn't matter.

Yeah, kinda makes sense but it's still based on an assumption, we can't be absolutely sure until someone that has a similar enchantment on hand does the testing.

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raics wrote:

Ok, tested it last night with Bronn's Lithe. If I'm right, the enchantment bonus 'inc damage to skill if it's incinerate' would be implemented the same way as the bonus on Bronn 'inc damage to skill if it's movement type'.

So it seems to be working properly, got a 47% inc Bronn, Oro and Chance to ignite on leap slam, it was a blank char so none other bonuses were there to interfere except for 1 frenzy charge I had in both runs from igniting. Having 47% inc damage with no other bonuses means I should be getting 2,16 times more damage from ignite assuming it double dips and it was the case, for instance on one of the runs I got ~420 points* of total damage from ignite and with the armor on I got ~890.

* some unrelated points that the tool was calibrated for, the exact amount doesn't matter.

Thank you for the testing, tho i dont know if they are similar enough. Movement refers to keyword or type of skill. Oh, well it doesnt matter, if it works for movement... shall be the same for specific skill increased.


Again, thank you raics !

i'm actually on vacation with a crappy laptop without graphic card so i cannot test it myself nor give you an incinerate hat atm

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raics wrote:

Yeah, kinda makes sense but it's still based on an assumption, we can't be absolutely sure until someone that has a similar enchantment on hand does the testing.

I agree with you that it makes sense. I wonder if that's why flameblast's stacking modifier says "more spell damage" and incinerate's says "more damage", for instance; maybe people should be testing incinerate with emberwake to see if it's actually still viable after the last nerf. If you're getting 150% more burning damage at max stage it really could be.

Incinerate stage bonuses will not double dip eith ignites, as the ignite/burning damage does not have any "stages". Similarly, shield charge has a "More damage with distance travelled" modifier, however this does not double dip with dots.

Bronns lithe will double dip, as movement skill damage is a class similar to projectile damage - it applies to attack, spell, and secondary effect (it must apply to dots, as it buffs flame dash burning ground).

If you have "increased tornado shot damage", it would only apply to the initial hit, as the damage over time effect is not the tornado shot, but a result of it, and so cannot be affected by it. In the same vein, "reduced earthquake duration" on helm enchant applies to the initial attck only, and does not reduce the duration of any dot effect applied as they are not the earthquake. Similarly, "increased flicker strike damage" enchant will not double dip.

you are wrong about "movement skill damage" IT IS NOT a damage type

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35 to 50)% increased Damage with Movement Skills

<- bronn's lithe

this wording here is not the same than

"

12% increased Area Damage

<- carcass jack


it's a completely different mechanic and there is no "increased movement damage" in the game
Cuz it's not a damage type.



For incinerate, it's interresting.
for earthquake, the aftershock is not earthquake itself so there is big differences between first hit and explosion. I dont know how duration works in this case. However poison is a part of EQ and of aftershock so maybe it's reduced on first strike but not on after shock or similar stuff! Very tricky to test.

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If you have "increased tornado shot damage", it would only apply to the initial hit, as the damage over time effect is not the tornado shot, but a result of it, and so cannot be affected by it. In the same vein, "reduced earthquake duration" on helm enchant applies to the initial attck only, and does not reduce the duration of any dot effect applied as they are not the earthquake. Similarly, "increased flicker strike damage" enchant will not double dip.

You are saying this based on your first theory that "increased damage with X" is a type of damage but it's not.

Also "increased tornado shot damage" is not a damage type, there is no "increased skill damage" in the game too because there is no "skill damage type" in the game!

So if it includes the whole skill with it's modifiers, it doubledips on dots because they are a part of the skill modified by increased damage.



You are mistaken on a point:
DOT/poison/ignite/bleed is a tornado shot damage. Tornado is the source. DOTs arent secondary effect, they arent "triggered by", they are "applied by, with % chances" it's totally different. Applied by means that it's a part of the skill itself with the skill itself as source. Triggered by means that it's a secondary mechanic after the hit, triggerd by is a source by itself, independant.

Cast on critical strike is a trigger type.
CWDT too.

dots are "applied by"

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Geisalt wrote:

for earthquake, the aftershock is not earthquake itself so there is big differences between first hit and explosion.

The aftershock is earthquake itself.