[2.3] Vanilla's Juggernaut Burning Prolif Discharge Build (10 End Charges)

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It can handle most Map mods, but the beauty of PoE is that no one build can run every single Map mod.

Not true. When chaos damage was a thing i was able to run absolutely every single mod on my builds last 2 leagues. It just depends on a build and gear. But maybe that why it was nerfed.

On topic. This league i play a build very similar to yours. I was trying to go burning discharge but then i just went full scale damage discharge + RF and oneshot screens on a 5L. I like to know your reasoning behind doing burning version over oneshot one (it's just 2 gem swaps so you can try it yourself). Reflect mobs don't kill me. Reflect maps i dont run.

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Xavyer wrote:

Not true. When chaos damage was a thing i was able to run absolutely every single mod on my builds last 2 leagues. It just depends on a build and gear. But maybe that why it was nerfed.

Yes, that is why it was nerfed. Even then, I played Chaos in both leagues as well (ED/Contagion in Talisman and CA in Perandus), and I still couldn't run Blood Magic / No Regen Maps.

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Xavyer wrote:

On topic. This league i play a build very similar to yours. I was trying to go burning discharge but then i just went full scale damage discharge + RF and oneshot screens on a 5L. I like to know your reasoning behind doing burning version over oneshot one (it's just 2 gem swaps so you can try it yourself). Reflect mobs don't kill me. Reflect maps i dont run.

Mainly just out of preference + a throwback to Kripp's old burning discharge build. I also do prefer being more tanky with a crapload of regen whereas with RF, I wouldn't have nearly as much. Almost level 88.

bump.

Updated entire guide. We now run RF and use Singularity for single-target bosses. Previously, our AoE damage was amazing and are single-target damage was shit. Now single-target damage is great with RF + Flame Surge.

Just be sure you have 100% uptime of Endurance Charges during boss fight to be able to sustain RF, else there's a small burn on you.

I got this build up and running. I have a Realm Ender staff 5L which gives +4 levels to Discharge.

I'm considering respec to Cruel Alira for +5% cast speed but only if the tree runs out of good nodes later.

I use Rallying Cry or Enduring Cry depending on circumstance.

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NorrYtt wrote:

I got this build up and running. I have a Realm Ender staff 5L which gives +4 levels to Discharge.

I'm considering respec to Cruel Alira for +5% cast speed but only if the tree runs out of good nodes later.

That's great to hear. And yes, I have heard a possible variant of this is using that staff. I preferred playing it on the safe side with a Wand+Shield since I'm playing in PHC. I do wonder if a 5L Searing Touch would be better than a Realm Ender due to its other mods like Inc Burning Damage. Have you tested it out?

As for Cruel Bandits, I'd say the Passive Point is better than Alira's Cast Speed, simply because of the nature of this build. Only like a quarter of your time is spent actually casting Discharge because of how fast the burn proliferates.




P.S. To everyone else, I just recently hit level 89 and my gems have dinged 20. Going to record a Rare Plateau run soon with the new damage and clearspeed.

bump,
- added a T10 Plateau video
- also made a new section regarding Quality and the 20 -> 1 recipe
- Updated tooltips because my gems have hit level 20 now

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Ryant12 wrote:

That's great to hear. And yes, I have heard a possible variant of this is using that staff. I preferred playing it on the safe side with a Wand+Shield since I'm playing in PHC. I do wonder if a 5L Searing Touch would be better than a Realm Ender due to its other mods like Inc Burning Damage. Have you tested it out?

No way Searing Touch can beat Realm Ender. Comparing them with perfect rolls Searing Touch has 50 spell damage, 40 fire damage, and 70 burning damage as well as +2 fire gems. The spell damage won't affect the ignite so you have basically 90% increased damage to the initial hit (spell + fire) and 110% increased damage to burning (fire + burning).

With Realm Ender you get 50% elemental damage which affects both the initial hit and ignite so that is 50% to the initial hit and 50% to burning. You lose out on 50% initial hit damage and 60% burning damage but you also gain +2 levels to Discharge. You also gain +4 levels to your Ele Prolif which reduces the less damage penalty. Also +3 levels to Fire Pen. On top of that you get a free Cold to Fire 7th link allowing you to also use Blood Rage to convert Frenzy Charges into Fire Damage as well as the small extra multiplier that comes with that since it is a level 5 gem.

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noremac13 wrote:

No way Searing Touch can beat Realm Ender. Comparing them with perfect rolls Searing Touch has 50 spell damage, 40 fire damage, and 70 burning damage as well as +2 fire gems. The spell damage won't affect the ignite so you have basically 90% increased damage to the initial hit (spell + fire) and 110% increased damage to burning (fire + burning).

1) The +2 Fire Gems will give Discharge +2, Chance to Ignite +2, Ele Prolif +2, and Fire Pen +2.

2) Hm? The spell damage does affect the ignite, right? The amount of burn depends on how much base damage you do with Discharge. Since Spell Dmg buffs Discharge dmg, then Spell Dmg inherently affects the ignite damage.

I haven't tested out either yet, but I plan to soon. Just wanted to hit level 90 as my first priority, in which I recently did.



To everyone else,
Going to update the guide tonight, as I've hit level 90.

bump, I've updated the guide now that I just hit level 90

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Ryant12 wrote:

1) The +2 Fire Gems will give Discharge +2, Chance to Ignite +2, Ele Prolif +2, and Fire Pen +2.

2) Hm? The spell damage does affect the ignite, right? The amount of burn depends on how much base damage you do with Discharge. Since Spell Dmg buffs Discharge dmg, then Spell Dmg inherently affects the ignite damage.

Yeah and Realm Ender gives +1 fire and +2 elemental so Discharge gets +4, Chance to Ignite +3, Prolif +4, and Fire Pen +3.

Sure spell damage gives you a slight damage boost but it is really mediocre. Since it doesn't double dip it is essentially a useless stat. Fire damage, elemental damage, area damage, general damage, and gem levels are all miles ahead of spell damage in terms of damage output and flexibility.

You want to gear towards as much of the more broad stats as possible and focus little on the niche stats.

In order of importance you want:
1. Gem levels: Absolute most important thing as base damage of spells tends to exponentially improve beyond gem level 20. In a Searing Touch a 21 gem becomes 23 which is 356 average base damage per charge. In Realm Ender it is 421 average which is a 18% multiplicative base damage increase. Not factoring in the buffs from the higher level support gems as well.

2. "Damage" Modifiers: This is the most broad form of damage you can get but also the hardest to come by. You mainly get it from rare jewels but you can also find it on uniques such as Doon Cuebiyari. This will double dip with ignite but also benefits any non-elemental damage you deal if you happen to convert some to chaos or if you decide to do physical damage spells for single target like Bladefall or EK.

3. Elemental Damage and Area Damage: Slightly more niche stats but these can be interchangeable depending on your preference. For example if you want to use something like BladeFall for single target getting Area damage is more priority since elemental damage won't modify the Bladefall. If you want to use something like Flame Totem getting Elemental damage is more important since Flame Totem isn't an AoE.

4. Fire Damage: The most niche stat that still double dips with ignite but since ignite builds do mostly fire damage you won't likely be losing much by stacking it. However with Realm Ender using Cold to Fire mechanics you do want to take advantage of adding cold damage your spells which Fire Damage will not scale unless you fully convert all the cold to fire damage.

5. Burning Damage and Damage over Time Modifiers: These stats can be good but since they only modify the DoT and not the initial hit it is really weak in situations where you don't ignite or monsters are resistant to status ailments. Burning damage gives you less overall DPS compared to Spell Damage but with the added utility of not being reflected so you can do less initial damage to be safer against reflect mobs while scaling your damage over time instead.

999. Spell Damage: Absolute taint with ignite builds. Increasing your up-front damage while not increasing your burn just means you are more likely to kill yourself on reflect while not even benefiting your ignite that much for the increased risk. Makes Iron Will a really weak link and you are almost better off linking Culling Strike.




Just to put it in perspective say your Discharge deals 500 base damage. So that is 500 upfront and 100 per second over 4 seconds on the ignite for a total of 900 damage.

100% spell damage - you deal 1000 upfront and 200 per second for 4 seconds totaling 1800 damage.

50% elemental, fire, or area damage - you deal 750 but your ignite will deal 225 for a total of 1650. So for half the amount you are doing almost the same damage.

On a regular character you will have a bit of everything so for example:
100% spell damage + 100% elemental damage + 100% burning damage + 50% area damage + 50% damage - you deal 2000 upfront damage
and 1600 per second over 4 seconds for 8400 total.

Now if you remove the 100% spell damage:
100% elemental damage + 100% burning damage + 50% area damage + 50% damage - you deal 1500 upfront damage
and 1200 per second over 4 seconds for 6300 total. That is roughly 33% damage lost for 100% spell damage.

If you lost elemental damage instead:
100% spell damage + 100% burning damage + 50% area damage + 50% damage - you deal 1500 upfront damage
and 900 per second over 4 seconds for 5100 total. That is roughly 64% damage lost for 100% elemental damage.

Also if you lost burning damage (basically Searing Touch):
100% spell damage + 100% elemental damage + 50% area damage + 50% damage - you deal 2000 upfront damage
and 1200 per second over 4 seconds for 6800 total. That is roughly 23% damage lost for 100% burning damage. So actually burning damage is the least impactful which is the main reason to use Searing Touch in the first place.



Using the above as a guideline you can quickly estimate the damage difference between the two items.

Searing Touch with 100% spell damage (+50% from item) + 100% elemental damage + 100% burning damage (+70% from item) + 50% area damage + 50% damage + 40% fire damage - you deal 2450 upfront damage and 2499 per second over 4 seconds for 12446 total.

Realm Ender with 100% spell damage + 100% elemental damage (+50% from item) + 100% burning damage + 50% area damage + 50% damage * 1.18 base damage increase from gem level - you deal 2655 upfront damage and 2390 per second over 4 seconds for 12215 total.

It is already very close but once you start factoring in the extra levels to other supports like Fire Pen (2 extra levels is 2% more penetration) and Prolif (2 extra levels is 1% more damage) as well as the bonus damage from Cold to Fire it will easily surpass Searing Touch.