When Chris says that lab haters are a minority, how right is he?

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beire91 wrote:

I hate the trials and uber, its not something u look for in an arpg and u are forced to do it or your character will suck balls.

WAKE UP! PoE no longer ARPG and never was, its trade simulator and about trading items, at least at start it was less forced and more fun, now its only about trading and economy. People with 1 level more successful and doing right then people that "farm".

So many bad changes that only show what PoE become:
- nerf exp - its signal to start trading and stop "farming",
- Prophecy - signal to stop even bothering about game, just open shop or trade chat and spam your items,
- shitty clear speed meta - signal that PoE lost all diversity of builds that was long ago,
- shitty useless unique that GGG add every patch - signal to stop even bothering about loot as 100% useless and only trading allow you to "farm" good items,
- etc

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Aim_Deep wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

I don't get the loot issue... of course people like getting loot. That's what drives this game for me anyway. Remove the loot aspect from the game and how many people would be playing it?

Nothing wrong with it until its so much more than anyplace else in an area that much derided. Obvious bribe to protect egos. "See Chris ppl love our lab idea" Well doh? give 1-2ex per 5-10min run most ppl do "love" free shit not the lab,.

They would not even run it if it gave map loot like before.

That's for certain and the same reason why Atziri is so successful.

In a way you get guaranteed "income" in both.
Why the fk would you run shitty maps that gives nothing than crap for hour on end.
A doryani's catalyst is easy 25c in average in PHC, and that's without including the potential for all the other drops.
Of course you don't always get that but it will happen often enough than it's 100 times better than the R N G (read GGG approved statistics designed to get zero rewards) forever.

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Mischief67 wrote:

A doryani's catalyst is easy 25c in average in PHC, and that's without including the potential for all the other drops.

I bought mine for 2c. The market gets fastly saturated now, especially since there are builds that can almost one-shot each phase with some minor rares they find by farming docks.

And Atziri is vastly more well balanced fight. She doesn't have bs freeze to instagibs sequences. The only way for her to insta-gib you is if you fuck up and not even that if you have a ruby flask and a decent amount of hp/es.

She also has much more well defined windows of when you can damage her. Izaro is a spam fest where you get 1 cast between avoiding each incoming pending doom. You can try for 2 casts and it might work, but hey, it's your luck you're gambling with in that case.

Unless you can just facetank him and ignore the whole fight altogether.

In both cases there is nothing engaging about it.

more than 58% dont even have 12 achievement pretty much show how much of a minority are the people that tired of the direction GGG is giving to the game with the lab and all

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Sexcalibure wrote:

more than 58% dont even have 12 achievement pretty much show how much of a minority are the people that tired of the direction GGG is giving to the game with the lab and all

I actually looked up past league %'s to compare. I was gonna make some snarky comment too but they're pretty close to passed league stats, maybe a little lower.

Honestly it doesn't mean fuck all since we don't know what numbers they're pooling from, useless stats are useless.

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TheWretch wrote:

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Sexcalibure wrote:

more than 58% dont even have 12 achievement pretty much show how much of a minority are the people that tired of the direction GGG is giving to the game with the lab and all

I actually looked up past league %'s to compare. I was gonna make some snarky comment too but they're pretty close to passed league stats, maybe a little lower.

Honestly it doesn't mean fuck all since we don't know what numbers they're pooling from, useless stats are useless.

I can pull assumption out of my ass as Chris does when saying lab dislikers are a minority... how can you analyse human feeling with ingame datas...

^ That's the joke. Anyway, he's a bright guy but that comment was so stupid. Don't call dissatisfied players a vocal minority. Even if he had backed it up with actual stats it would still be piss poor form coming from the president of a studio. The fact that there was 0 evidence brought forward to back it up made it even worse.

Any noob can take one look at the sub reddit or the forum and see that a lot of people don't like it. Minority? Maybe. Dismissing them as such? Enjoy the loss of revenue I guess?

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TheWretch wrote:

Any noob can take one look at the sub reddit or the forum and see that a lot of people don't like it. Minority? Maybe. Dismissing them as such? Enjoy the loss of revenue I guess?

The repeated argument that some might bring that reddit and forums can't represent the majority is so fallacious it's laughable at best as well.

What's more ridiculous a statement:

a) The forums are a sub-group which can be treated as representative of the total within an error margin.
b) Anyone not complaining in the forums is absolutely happy about it.

I'd say that (a) is the reasonable choice.

It's not like we have lacked people who actually defend lab in this very thread.

If anything, how many people outside the forums have access to builds that diminish the lab to laughable content?

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Apos91 wrote:

a) The forums are a sub-group which can be treated as representative of the total within an error margin.

That margin is larger than the target zone in this case, if we go by reddit and forum we would assume that an average PoE player is:
- generally bored with the game
- doesn't trust the devs anymore
- well-versed in game mechanics and knows most of the tricks in the book
- interested strictly in high level play
- is done with challenge league after a month at most after which he just waits for the new one

That's the same as saying that a car show enthusiast fairly accurately represents an average car owner.

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raics wrote:

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Apos91 wrote:

a) The forums are a sub-group which can be treated as representative of the total within an error margin.

That margin is larger than the target zone in this case, if we go by reddit and forum we would assume that an average PoE player is:
- generally bored with the game
- doesn't trust the devs anymore
- well-versed in game mechanics and knows most of the tricks in the book
- interested strictly in high level play
- is done with challenge league after a month at most after which he just waits for the new one

That's the same as saying that a car show enthusiast fairly accurately represents an average car owner.

That's true, but that the error margin is bound to be biased against the lab, not in its favor.

If many well versed players are annoyed by it, how can those outside of it who have builds barely able to go through the first battle of Izaro actually be happy about it?

An average owner generally does not understand the shortcomings of a car. The analogy would be valid if we were talking about a car that breaks down every 5 seconds and you need to have in-depth technical knowledge to get it to work. And not even those who have that technical knowledge actually want to get it to work.

If the problems with the lab was just that it's tedious, then I can see how some average joe would enjoy it. Right now I expect no average joe to even want to bother with it out of frustration.