When Chris says that lab haters are a minority, how right is he?

The problem with this thread, just as any balance-related forum thread, is that people are taking a nuanced situation to extremes. Reality is rarely black and white. To illustrate:

- if you're against the lab, you're moaning and whining. If you're for it, you're whiteknighting.
- the lab is either terrible or brilliant
- the straw poll is either useless or a great source of information

It's never as simple and easy. The lab has some good points and some bad points. What's a good point to some may be a bad point to others. The straw poll does give some indication of player's opinion, especially when there is such a large discrepancy in the votes, but it should be taken with a grain of salt and compared with other sources of information.

The other problem, again just as any balance-related thread, is people are going way too emotional about a simple game discussion. Just say what you think and why, there's no need to get so angry.


Now, from everything I've seen here, in the forum in general and from my ingame friends, most people seem to have a mostly negative opinion of the lab. This should be pretty obvious to anyone who's paying attention to the game and the forum and I'm not going to waste my time for pointless debates about it. That's what I think and if you disagree, fine.

This makes Chris's statement about a vocal minority sound truly strange. Is he misleading us or he thinks that just because almost everyone is running the lab, they actually like it? I don't know. In case a), he's manipulative. In case b), he's naive.

I hope it's case a) and he's just trying to give the lab some PR spin. They did reduce the trial part, so that's a good start. I do think they should make the cruel lab give 4 points, merciless - 6 and the endgame lab - 8. This will allow players who just need the ascendancy points to minimize their time spent playing Super Mario.

"Needs vs Wants" pretty sure that was taught in elementary school.

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raics wrote:

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deathflower wrote:

That beg the question though. Where are all the whiteknights? There is no reason they can't vote. Whiners simply outnumbered the whiteknights.

It only makes sense, is it harder to be a Jedi or a Sith?

what tells you who is on the good and the bad side?
Everybody think they are working for the good

I'm guessing they're also taking into account how many times you complete a Labyrinth Run and how many times you've completed it. (Maybe they have some runic Vaalish way of recording this stuff... you know)

And that's where Chris is basing that the Lab Haters as a minority.

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JeremiahLoh wrote:

I'm guessing they're also taking into account how many times you complete a Labyrinth Run and how many times you've completed it. (Maybe they have some runic Vaalish way of recording this stuff... you know)

And that's where Chris is basing that the Lab Haters as a minority.

Everyone I know was running the lab only when absolutely necessary by the middle of Perandus league, I don't know where Chris is getting his data and how he's interpreting it but everything I know seems to indicate the players who run the lab a lot are the minority, not vice versa.

The numbers seem quite clear to me and come from a lot of sources:

- this poll (yeah, yeah, I know - it's not the ultimate truth but it's just another source)
- everyone I know and played with in both SC and HC Perandus. Even my PSC buddies hated it, in PHC it was on a whole different level of hate.
- what I've seen in the forum

I don't know what other sources of information there are but these all tell the same story. There is a minority but it's not the lab haters who are in it.

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JeremiahLoh wrote:

I'm guessing they're also taking into account how many times you complete a Labyrinth Run and how many times you've completed it. (Maybe they have some runic Vaalish way of recording this stuff... you know)

And that's where Chris is basing that the Lab Haters as a minority.

Some people hate their jobs and still go to work every day, just like some people hate the lab and still grind it for challenges or enchants. People are very willing to do things they hate if the rewards are important enough to them.

You simply can't discern how much someone likes the lab from how many lab runs they do.

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Sexcalibure wrote:

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raics wrote:

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deathflower wrote:

That beg the question though. Where are all the whiteknights? There is no reason they can't vote. Whiners simply outnumbered the whiteknights.

It only makes sense, is it harder to be a Jedi or a Sith?

what tells you who is on the good and the bad side?
Everybody think they are working for the good

No, nothing like that, good and evil are difficult concepts, it's better not to go there.

Just saying that being a Whiteknight requires a specific mindset that is less common than the opposite, a focus of existence if you will, something you see in a dog, for example. It isn't superior or anything, just a bit more rare.

With a bit of work on trap calculations for ES builds i see no problems with the labs especialy since they took out the need to redo the trials while leveling for every character.
I see alot of people complain about their precious ascendency points being gated behind the labs i see no problem there:a big increase in power should mean great risks too.If you cant make a build that atleast get you the normal and cruel ascendency points so you can step up to merciless and endgame lab later on then it's your own fault.

by making a build you mean blindlessly stacking movementspeed mechanics ?

% traps in a gear and progress game are so dumb i cant even describe it...hey dude u spend all the last 80 level to figure out multiple layers of mitigation here is an idea we make that all useless...

already made my decision lab changes or i go on break its summer in europe lots of activities beside doing something i dont enjoy..

something tells me iam not the only one who feels like this

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ventiman wrote:

% traps in a gear and progress game are so dumb i cant even describe it...hey dude u spend all the last 80 level to figure out multiple layers of mitigation here is an idea we make that all useless...

Must be hard to dodge stuff with predictable patterns. Learn to play and traps are a non-existant issue.

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ventiman wrote:

already made my decision lab changes or i go on break its summer in europe lots of activities beside doing something i dont enjoy..

Good luck on the outside world then. See you in Wraeclast once Prophecy hits. ;)