When Chris says that lab haters are a minority, how right is he?

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ventiman wrote:

couldnt care less what ppl think here fact is if i keep making products the customer dislikes my revenue goes down

buisness 1 o 1

if he is stubborn and doesnt change it to protect his creation let him ....sooner or later he will be forced to change it or its back to selling d2 duped items

once the reviews come in on gameing sites.....was the same with desyc

look what happened to pvp its basicly a nobrainer that the lab will change

True @ Business 101. BUT, you are still assuming that the opinion of the OP is correct. If most of their customers like lab as they say, then they are making a smart business 101 decision, not a bad one. your assumption that the OP is right is just as skewed as the OP's poll.

PvP was a small side concept, and it died. GGG knew it died the same way that they know that lab is popular. They can see the game as whole. they can pull numbers on participation and who did what in the lab. We as players cannot, and if we use nothing but the forums as a reference, were severely narrow in our view. Every Dev team since the dawn of MMO's has known this fact.

I don't mind the lab. I don't like that ACS points are stuck behind it. I'm somewhat irked that the last 2 points are gated hehind a gring on top of the lab grind. But power creep has made so much of the game easier that I don't think much about it... there needs to be something to shoot for. I hated trials, and they are (for all intents and purposes)gone. And they reduced the difficult of Cruel Lab. So IMO They are moving in the right direction. I'll be patient and see how it works out in the future.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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raics wrote:

So, to cut the long story short, we have two major problems with this poll.
1. Forum/Reddit poll isn't a good representative of the overall population because it might be just 200 whiners, 50 whiteknights and 50 random scrubs, because who else is visiting forums and reddit.
2. If they did it ingame right now it also wouldn't work because 'real players' are taking the time off between leagues and the only ones populating the leagues are diehard traders and jaded standard longriders that get zero excitement from the game anyway.

So, the closest we'll get to the true public opinion survey would be by releasing an ingame poll within the first month of Prophecy with the right to vote being granted after completing the labyrinth at least once on the account.

The measure is needed because hate is a much stronger emotion, creating multiple accounts to bash something via the poll is much more likely than doing the same to praise it.

It would have to get more in depth than a in game poll to be honest.

Even if they add an in game poll it would be near similar to straw polling because the completely lack of information regardless of the quantity of responses actually being high enough to warrant more accurate numbers.

The community itself both here and on reddit is often a hive mind mentality.

I remember i responded on reddit to someone a while back detailing how profitable labyrinth was, i got absolutely downvoted into oblivion with tons of negative responses. A week and a half later someone posts a thread detailing pretty much everything i said, gets upvoted to the front page and its tons of people singing nothing but praise for how it made them rich.

I honestly hate both the forums and reddit community purely for the large amount of hiveminding.

Couldn't agree more, I wouldn't be surprised if the players posting / voting on the two websites are the same ...

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Barivius wrote:

Izaro is the best boss fight in the game.

The music in the lab is the best track in the game.

Even though my dislike for labyrinth is well know (see signature) i have to properly congratulate GGG for those two parts.

Izaro is indeed one of the better bosses you can face ingame not because he hits hard but because its refreshing cause of all the variables he is affected depending on what you do in each stage, and because he changes weapons/fighting style every so often. I was sad that they did not make a map version of him to be honest, because due to the general shitness of the labyrinth i only faced izaro a few times during my effort to do the enchant challenge (which of course i didnt do cause i was dying a bit inside everytime i had to do the lab, up to the point i abandoned the idea). At least its almost certain that the new Plaza (t14) map that will be introduced in prophecy will have Izaro as a boss.

For the music part i cant say much (ive already shared my view in the past). Yes GGG does a magnificent work on that department, they actually always had very immersing and well made soundtracks but from the Awakening and after they managed somehow to level up their game both in quality but also consistency too. (meaning all the tracks are good not some good and some bad).

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Regulator wrote:

At least its almost certain that the new Plaza (t14) map that will be introduced in prophecy will have Izaro as a boss.

No, it won't. It will have a version of the goddess. No Izaro for you.

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Jayserix wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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raics wrote:

So, to cut the long story short, we have two major problems with this poll.
1. Forum/Reddit poll isn't a good representative of the overall population because it might be just 200 whiners, 50 whiteknights and 50 random scrubs, because who else is visiting forums and reddit.
2. If they did it ingame right now it also wouldn't work because 'real players' are taking the time off between leagues and the only ones populating the leagues are diehard traders and jaded standard longriders that get zero excitement from the game anyway.

So, the closest we'll get to the true public opinion survey would be by releasing an ingame poll within the first month of Prophecy with the right to vote being granted after completing the labyrinth at least once on the account.

The measure is needed because hate is a much stronger emotion, creating multiple accounts to bash something via the poll is much more likely than doing the same to praise it.

It would have to get more in depth than a in game poll to be honest.

Even if they add an in game poll it would be near similar to straw polling because the completely lack of information regardless of the quantity of responses actually being high enough to warrant more accurate numbers.

The community itself both here and on reddit is often a hive mind mentality.

I remember i responded on reddit to someone a while back detailing how profitable labyrinth was, i got absolutely downvoted into oblivion with tons of negative responses. A week and a half later someone posts a thread detailing pretty much everything i said, gets upvoted to the front page and its tons of people singing nothing but praise for how it made them rich.

I honestly hate both the forums and reddit community purely for the large amount of hiveminding.

Couldn't agree more, I wouldn't be surprised if the players posting / voting on the two websites are the same ...

That beg the question though. Where are all the whiteknights? There is no reason they can't vote. Whiners simply outnumbered the whiteknights.

well you only need to do it once per difficulty and you can just pay someone to do it, so for people who hate it it's no problem

most people who have played the game a lot hate leveling, if they could get directly in maps they'd skip everything

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

The forums isnt a place for discussion anymore, its a place for perpetual bitching and moaning, which is why most people avoid the forums entirely now.

Vouch

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Jaille wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

The forums isnt a place for discussion anymore, its a place for perpetual bitching and moaning, which is why most people avoid the forums entirely now.

Vouch

That doesn't make their votes invalid though, even if you argue that the poll is skewed to certain demographic. I would presume that a more unbiased poll would have more moderate voters.

When Chris says that lab haters are a minority, he might be correct. But he is misleading and misrepresenting things. Assuming that majority of the players are moderate, they neither love or hate the lab; People who love the labyrinth are probably a minority too, which make his statement rather Cheesy.

He's just as right now as he was about PvP when they were doubling down on a loser.

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deathflower wrote:

That beg the question though. Where are all the whiteknights? There is no reason they can't vote. Whiners simply outnumbered the whiteknights.

It only makes sense, is it harder to be a Jedi or a Sith?