When Chris says that lab haters are a minority, how right is he?

Based on people who browse reddit/forums, and care enough to click and complete a strawpoll it seems 50/50, which I don't think either side of the argument would expect. The bottom line is they're making improvements and changing things up for this season inside the lab, you'll also notice they went and lowered cruel lab's boss too. They also made it so you only have to run the trials once per season, which is a great change. Bitching about it right now is pretty pointless till you see what else has changed.

Coming up with some ideas they can implement in 2.4 after seeing the 2.3 version is the best hope you have of improving your experience. Whatever you come up with is better than, "NO ONE LIKES IT REMOVE IT". Speaking of irrational requests, can we get rid of the fucking awful master grind that I have to do every league.

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mark1030 wrote:

I don't know where the positively biased people are, but look at the feedback forum and tell me what percentage of the topics you would consider positive and what percentage would you consider negative? Because there are very few "This game is awesome" topics and a whole bunch of "This is a problem" topics. So that would indicate to me that either there are very few positive people or that they don't come to the forums because they don't have complaints.

Or it could indicate that for majority of people feedback is mostly about raising the issues. In that case the positive majority would still be here and in the face of all the negative feedback we'd expect more of this silent majority to step up. Yet we see the same few people over and over attacking posters and straw men instead of arguing the actual complaints.

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mark1030 wrote:

I don't think Chris said the majority of the people love it, did he? I only listened to it once but I more got the impression that he said the majority of the people don't hate it.

Well, I haven't even watched the podcast but vocal minority would certainly imply that majority of people are at least neutral to it and that there is more lovers than haters. In any case GGG should be able to collect statistics to prove Labyrinth's popularity but until that day I'll remain skeptical about the whole vocal minority thing.

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M0rO wrote:

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Jayserix wrote:

Do you realize that the PLACE where the polls are posted are ALWAYS targeting a specific population ? Make a poll on a site where people who dislike labs are posting every seconds and omg results !

The only place where you can make a poll and have realistic results are at the end of the lab run, end of story.

what if you never make it to the end of the lab? then you cant vote. see, that method is extremely flawed isnt it?

KeK, and yet it's the best way to know the real numbers. And what you say is irrelevant you know why ? Even though there ARE crashes forcing players to restart the whole run, you can't deny the fact that it's an actual minority who doesn't run the lab at least once. So yeah ...

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kuukkeli wrote:

Can you tell us a proper place to find all these people who love the Labyrinth then? As far as I know all of the polls this far have been posted to these negatively biased places (according to few who defend the Labyrinth, at least) but considering that majority of the players are supposed to love the Labyrinth there's got to be a positively biased forums as well, right (unless majority of Labyrinth lovers happen to be illiterate)?

This far the Labyrinth defense has been:

1) Majority likes/loves it (but they're nowhere to be found)

2) L2P (but I have 6 Ascendancy points on all my Perandus characters, and have done all Labyrinth challenges except the Enchantment one)

3) It's GGG's game (but we, the players, are the customers who choose what we play)

4) It's a nice change of pace (but content that breaks genre expectations should be optional, not gating the character development)

Let me know if I forgot any.

Unless you aren't familiar with forums / website, the amount of angry has always been higher on these platforms. You know why ? That's how humans are : when it's good, you enjoy it. When you don't like it, you make a fuss.

Those who enjoy the lab are busy running it, either for fun or for currency, those who don't care don't talk about it, and those who hate it, well I don't need to continue.

A growing forest makes less noise than a falling tree.

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kuukkeli wrote:

"

Jayserix wrote:

Do you realize that the PLACE where the polls are posted are ALWAYS targeting a specific population ? Make a poll on a site where people who dislike labs are posting every seconds and omg results !

Can you tell us a proper place to find all these people who love the Labyrinth then? As far as I know all of the polls this far have been posted to these negatively biased places (according to few who defend the Labyrinth, at least) but considering that majority of the players are supposed to love the Labyrinth there's got to be a positively biased forums as well, right (unless majority of Labyrinth lovers happen to be illiterate)?

This far the Labyrinth defense has been:

1) Majority likes/loves it (but they're nowhere to be found)

2) L2P (but I have 6 Ascendancy points on all my Perandus characters, and have done all Labyrinth challenges except the Enchantment one)

3) It's GGG's game (but we, the players, are the customers who choose what we play)

4) It's a nice change of pace (but content that breaks genre expectations should be optional, not gating the character development)

Let me know if I forgot any.

The proper place would be in the game itself. If the developers think it's worthwhile they will do that since presumably they should understand that any poll on the forums or any external site would not be generalizable to the game's population in general.

For the sake of argument, I can propose some "defenses" of the labyrinth that you missed.

5) I'm not convinced anything should be changed/I like the labyrinth. (only defense required actually, but bad for discussion)

6) The Ascendency points should be gated in a way that requires similar investments in time (outside of normal leveling and quests) and risk of character death. (counter idea: introduce optional puzzles in the lab that can turn off the traps or kill you if you fail enough times. People seem to hate the traps the most.https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216)

7) I would prefer development time be spent on new content. The labyrinth is functional and if you don't like it just do it for the points once per character.

so out of the 5 challenges i still need to get to 40 one is the lab enchantment one.
i have 4/12 and i can't get myself running the lab anymore.
i did the trinket one and found a lab unique.

i could get 39 easily by now. i'm also missing
- unique shield from cadiro (discarded a lot of them when running solaris because i wanted the coins)
- some div cards
- 1 T15 boss
- identify treasure (i found 2 and could easily buy the other 2)

yet, while this is the first league i could get all challenges i wont because, for me, lab runs are pointless.

lets see how the map-lab is going to be. but i fear it will be more like (uber)atziri thus not accessible by a lot of people making it misused dev-time.

the stubborness of some (one?) ggg-devs need to stop!

Sorry everyone i thought i had wandered into a Blizzard Forum for World of Warcraft for a second.


This post is ALL about individuals realizing that , hey , maybe the entire world does not revolve around you and just MAYBE you are infact a vocal minority. 90% of players for this game dont have time to log into a forum , sit there , read through the posts , generate a reaction to them and then reply in a thoughtful manner. The majority of people sitting here commenting in these sections are individuals who play this game more or less like it is infact a paying job . As such the issues brought up here are ones that likely do not cross the minds of many of the players for POE.

GGG is under no obligation to satisfy the whims or desires of such a small verbal selection of its players. Personally I rant about how hardcore is sooooo tiny and empty all the time. Do i expect GGG to change the entire game and spend massive amounts of dollars because of this? No.

While the discussion is absolutely fine - taking it more seriously than it is can be nearly comical.


Having ONLY played hardcore in this game - and having run lab many times last league , I never really felt pressured or at a loss to pass the content.This is my experience and im not exactly a pro-super-elite-player. It seemed really really tame if you were just paying attention.


What i believe is happening here is people normally insulated from any challenge at all are actually being forced into lets be honest - not-so-challenging game mechanics , causing all sorts of angst. these are the people who count JEweler orbs and base all fuse transactions in a min/maxed chart VS Vorici. The fact that individuals from Softcore are sitting here literally complaining about a game mechanic that will cause a death of no consequence is absolute comedy to me and my room mates. Maybe you should all go play overwatch or some other less challenging game.

I for one hope GGG does not sellout to the screeching hoards of unshaven necks. The entire problem with alot of the titles out today that are considered mmo's are their pandering to a far too large amount of people hoping to generate cash from it. What results is a watered down , nasty experience that has a better place in the corporate board rooms of Disneyland than it does on the internet . Imho.

Lab is some of ggg's best work. I love grinding it. Sure is funny how people playing a game from a company called grinding gear games want everything handed to them for nothing. I blame the entitlement generation.

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miljan wrote:

Here is a new poll posted on reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/4lbzjr/please_rate_the_the_labyrinth_how_much_you_like/

http://www.strawpoll.me/10324751/r

By the time of writing this post there are 159 votes

1. 38 votes (24%)
2. 3 votes (2%)
3. 17 votes (11%)
4. 12 votes (8%)
5. 15 votes (9%)
6. 12 votes (8%)
7. 20 votes (13%)
8. 23 votes (14%)
9. 6 votes (4%)
10. 13 votes (8%)

53% voted negative, while 47% positive.

So, there is no real majority here, but the community is divided (at least from the people that voted).

If you split it into three section.

1. 70 votes (27%)
2. 11 votes (4%)
3. 26 votes (10%)

(41%) Negative

4. 20 votes (8%)
5. 23 votes (9%)
6. 17 votes (7%)
7. 29 votes (11%)

(35%) Middle

8. 33 votes (13%)
9. 11 votes (4%)
10. 19 votes (7%)

(24%) Positive

You might have a different interpretation.

Well, I have also made my opinion on lab pretty clear in past posts. So I won't bother going thru it all again.

I do *not* like the lab.

The evidence that i'm not the only one is clear enough, especially when all your friends, guild mates and associates agree.

Most of my guild mates walked away after seeing the inside of the lab for themselves.

In my opinion, GGG will come to regret this in the end.

I've been around online games long enough to know why.

That's all...


R.

"

Nizreb915 wrote:

Lab is some of ggg's best work. I love grinding it. Sure is funny how people playing a game from a company called grinding gear games want everything handed to them for nothing. I blame the entitlement generation.

so tell me ... what do you want to grind in there?

T1 maps?
ilvl 70 bases?
useless lab-only uniques?

the ONLY thing why ppl are running the lab is the (helm) enchants and those are not even neccessary!

if you can't dedicate several hours per day to POE you better invest your time doing something else than running the lab!