When Chris says that lab haters are a minority, how right is he?

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raics wrote:

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Isdp wrote:

Thing is.. most guys that whiteknight about lab might have forget that Chris said the same thing about Pvp and that shitty stream league.
He was SO SURE it was good he went derp saying it was a huge succes.

Yeah. We can see that today I guess.

Well, I did advise them to just give up on it back then, PvP requires a stable environment and PoE is anything but.

Yeah.
And it's bascily the same issue all over again about the lab.
Too many variables going against the lab. Lag / crash / etc.

They'll defend it for a time then maybe realize it's not worth the investment.
Like they did with PVP.

So who has actual data about the amount of players who like / dislike lab runs ? Noone, facts out of your asses doesn't count ... Same goes for GGG in case some of you fools didn't get it.

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Jayserix wrote:

So who has actual data about the amount of players who like / dislike lab runs ? Noone, facts out of your asses doesn't count ... Same goes for GGG in case some of you fools didn't get it.

I haven't read this whole thread so I don't know if you're specifically responding to someone, but there is actual data in the strawpoll. The results of that are data. I don't understand where you're coming from.

Also, from what I did glance through, some people are dismissing the poll because it's exclusively from forum readers who are probably a small subset of total players. I think this is incorrect. At some point, data becomes a decent sample size. I don't know the total population of Path of Exile players but it seems that 590 votes is a pretty good sample. As of right now, 45% hate it, 29% neutral, 25% love it.

The good thing is even those that hate it only really need to do it three times per character which will be a small amount of time of the total time spent playing (in most cases).

Also, for the record, I hate lab but I also don't think they'll ever change or remove it, so it is what it is.

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Isdp wrote:

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raics wrote:

"

Isdp wrote:

Thing is.. most guys that whiteknight about lab might have forget that Chris said the same thing about Pvp and that shitty stream league.
He was SO SURE it was good he went derp saying it was a huge succes.

Yeah. We can see that today I guess.

Well, I did advise them to just give up on it back then, PvP requires a stable environment and PoE is anything but.

Yeah.
And it's bascily the same issue all over again about the lab.
Too many variables going against the lab. Lag / crash / etc.

They'll defend it for a time then maybe realize it's not worth the investment.
Like they did with PVP.

I don't remember a bunch of "white knights" saying PvP was great. Maybe instead of labeling people as white knights, just credit them with having a valid opinion that is different than yours.

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johnssec wrote:

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Jayserix wrote:

So who has actual data about the amount of players who like / dislike lab runs ? Noone, facts out of your asses doesn't count ... Same goes for GGG in case some of you fools didn't get it.

I haven't read this whole thread so I don't know if you're specifically responding to someone, but there is actual data in the strawpoll. The results of that are data. I don't understand where you're coming from.

Also, from what I did glance through, some people are dismissing the poll because it's exclusively from forum readers who are probably a small subset of total players. I think this is incorrect. At some point, data becomes a decent sample size. I don't know the total population of Path of Exile players but it seems that 590 votes is a pretty good sample. As of right now, 45% hate it, 29% neutral, 25% love it.

The good thing is even those that hate it only really need to do it three times per character which will be a small amount of time of the total time spent playing (in most cases).

Also, for the record, I hate lab but I also don't think they'll ever change or remove it, so it is what it is.

You mean 4 times per character? And for some reason that sounds alot worse then you make it sound like. Normally i would easily make 10 alts a league. This league, 3. Next league probably just gonna have 1 char total. Great addition this lab thing.

I've been vocal since day 1 about the Labyrinth, and since noone seems to care about it I'll just make a nice TL;DR:

I hate it.

(plenty of reasons why in my post history if you really want to)

Lab pretty much sucks and is not fun. The fact you have to grind it for enchants you want is insane, literally so dumb.

GGG thinks that the end game is running the same piece of content over 300 times to just get dissapointed over and over again.

I've stayed away from all threads about the lab since there seemed to be enough people expressing their dislike of it (I hate it, personally). I ran through it to get the points and class changes and was done with it - but I decided to write GGG a personal email on my thoughts of the lab, how it was polarizing players, and how it caused several of my long time POE friends to leave the game.

Their response told me everything I needed to know...ie...the lab is here to stay and my guess at the time was that the staff and developers put so much energy into the lab idea and creation that it is, in a sense, a baby to them. But how do you tell the proud parents that their baby not only isn't cute, but is in fact, hideously ugly?

This was only a guess on my part...but listening to a recent podcast I picked up something from one of the GGG staff (you all know who) that made me realize that my hunch was right. There is a part where he says something about how he and other people "read these books when they were kids where the adventurers had to avoid nasty traps and stuff" so he thought that would be a great thing to put into POE.

It is like some years ago when my the creators of my favorite comic book series decided to let a new guest artist do a bunch of issues. The quality of this "artists" work was so bad...the entire fanbase pretty much went postal...although there were a few who liked this "new direction". Unfortunately one of the main owner/creators of the series refused to listen to us...said that we were all being unreasonable, plenty of people loved this new artist, the fans are not accepting of change, etc etc. No amount of honest, constructive or critical feedback seemed to be getting through to him. Their comic lost a huge amount of its fanbase (of which it is has still never recovered from) and almost 10 years later...this unfortunately arrogant guy (once very much loved by the fans) admitted that the fans were indeed right...the guest artist was not very skilled and had ruined the quality of their product. 10 years it took him to admit this...10 years!

Now while this is a different scenario...my personal opinion is that we are seeing the same thing happen.

So...I think GGG is well aware of the large percentage of lab "haters"...but I think they are unwilling (or unable) to accept this because of their personal feelings on how great the lab is. And I think that is their only failing here...at the end of the day, they do not get to decide what is "good" content...the players do. It's like the old adage...something is worth only what someone else is willing to pay for it...the buyer has the true power to dictate the price, not the seller unless the demand is extremely high...in which case, the buyer again, still has the power (no one forces them to pay).

Same goes for this game. No one is forcing us to play. The lab may suck for some of us, but we're still here.

And since quite a few people like the lab, it is again, here to stay.

So I will continue to do as I have before: run it to get the points for class change, then GTFO, and wait until someone sells the enchant I'm looking for at a reasonable price. ;)

So much money to be made with lab enchants & lab running services. I was able to amass a pretty good chunk of currency due to this alone.

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johnssec wrote:

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Jayserix wrote:

So who has actual data about the amount of players who like / dislike lab runs ? Noone, facts out of your asses doesn't count ... Same goes for GGG in case some of you fools didn't get it.

I haven't read this whole thread so I don't know if you're specifically responding to someone, but there is actual data in the strawpoll. The results of that are data. I don't understand where you're coming from.

Also, from what I did glance through, some people are dismissing the poll because it's exclusively from forum readers who are probably a small subset of total players. I think this is incorrect. At some point, data becomes a decent sample size. I don't know the total population of Path of Exile players but it seems that 590 votes is a pretty good sample. As of right now, 45% hate it, 29% neutral, 25% love it.

The good thing is even those that hate it only really need to do it three times per character which will be a small amount of time of the total time spent playing (in most cases).

Also, for the record, I hate lab but I also don't think they'll ever change or remove it, so it is what it is.

Do you realize that the PLACE where the polls are posted are ALWAYS targeting a specific population ? Make a poll on a site where people who dislike labs are posting every seconds and omg results !

The only place where you can make a poll and have realistic results are at the end of the lab run, end of story.