Open Letter to Chris Wilson (on making the labyrinth more inclusive)
" I'd say it does, but it still depends on how much they increase said rewards. It ought to be a bit MORE rewarding than farming outside zones because it's a more dangerous area, and you risk losing experience (or your whole toon) on death. As of now it's nowhere close, but we can't judge how effective this will be in incentivizing slower play in the lab until we can feel it on the live servers. @OP I'd like to add something for consideration. The podcast quote that jumped out to me came right after what you quoted. It was 'Divisive content is ok'. I think that's a dangerous attitude to have given the unprecedented number of ways people have to spend their time and money these days. Would you rather create content that half your community rates 10/10, but the other half rates 0/10? Or would you rather make something that everyone rates as between 7 and 8/10. As an artist, you should prefer the former. As a f2p developer you should prefer the latter. |
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" Except the lab is about 50% people rating it 0-4 and 50% raiting it 5-10 Average raiting is about a 4.5 . Pretty sure no intelligent developer wants to aim for a failing grade. Even as a lab runner, i do not really like the lab - i just have a gambling addiction and they took away my eternals. |
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" It does, but only in the vaguest of terms. I'll go out on a limb here and say that it is unrealistic for them to have addressed Point #2 adequately so quickly. More likely it will be a small improvement, but the basic problem of "back-loading" will remain, and slow/thorough playstyles will remain unrewarding. Any real fix for Problem 2 likely have to wait for the next major patch. Problem 1 may never be fixed. It depends on whether they want to make running the Labyrinth (repeatedly) enjoyable for a wider swathe of people. Which comes down to internal priorities and (yes) profits. Problem 3 seems likely to be fixed by decoupling the Ascendancy points completely. Chris says it won't happen soon, assuming it does indeed happen, but you can't deny that it is an effective "quick-and-dirty" solution. Personally, I'd rather seen them make the Labyrinth more fun, and keep the Ascendancy points in it. I'd love to do runs for enchantments, if I could enjoy the content WHILE running it (which requires fixes to both 1 and 2), rather than AFTER running it. The journey is more important than the destination. Wash your hands, Exile!
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Have you tried bringing Leap Slam? It won't help with combat with most builds, but it's really helpful for dealing with most of the traps. Blink arrow is pretty okay with a good attack speed, but it's not as good.
If you're alone, I suggest getting teammates to do gold key/silver key stuff when it's just navigating traps. CWDT + Immortal Call, both at level 1, help a ton with the spike traps and render them pretty close to harmless if you have an okay amount of regen. None of these are fixing issues, but they make traps a lot less dangerous. D: |
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" Indeed, if traps being too dangerous were a primary reason for Labyrinth dislike, there would be many solutions, most found within the game itself and therefore solvable without GGG intervention. As things stand, however, using movement skills to "cheese" past the traps is only a band-aid on a very large wound. Wash your hands, Exile!
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Nice read gibbousmoon. No need to say anything more on the matter you already know my opinion except one number 2.
As already mentioned, number 2 was adressed earlier with the news announcement but i find it really worth of analysis. Shouldnt the fun and enjoyment you get out of the labyrinth (its different gameplay, the feeling, the lore etc) be enough to keep you hooked? Arent all those extra keys and random chests, and lab specific uniques not good enough? Arent shrines and the boni and countless effects the offer good enough? All of those incentivize players to run side areas yet the majority of lab lovers does not, why is that? Simple cause the labyrinth IS NOT FUN to play. And if you dont take my word, just look at the new threads or the comments in the news announcement. People are hating on labyrinth for so many reason, and putting another carrot at the side end of the stick wont make things better. They sucked out the fun part of a past time activity, thats enough to make people hate it no matter how many pinatas you put in there. Lets indeed see what labyrinth supporters have to say Inundated with cockroaches, I am https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216 - labyrinth rework ideas/suggestions Last edited by Regulator#4587 on May 25, 2016, 2:02:21 AM
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" What flower? ...And therein lies the problem. Traps are not flowers. Nor do traps slow down any experienced Labyrinth runner by much. Yes, I get your distinction between content pacing and incentives. My point is that incentives (incentive structure and placement, not incentive quantity) have a direct and demonstrable impact on content pacing. Maps are full of flowers (loot that drops as you play it). If anything, the existence of flowers slows down gameplay, and the non-existence speeds it up. Is that what you are trying to say? Because I agree with that 100%. " I get you, Regulator, and I am in complete agreement. But adding carrots isn't the only way to make the content enjoyable DURING gameplay. Indeed, as you point out, it's not an effective measure at all. Clearly I didn't think it through when I mentioned it as a tentative suggestion. How about raising the ilvl of the area a little and giving a slower path through the lab? That will, in addition to giving ARPG traditionalists (i.e., labyrinth haters) a way to avoid gameplay they hate, allow them to engage in more conventional ARPG gameplay. And those who like to play slowly and thoroughly can enjoy the grind, instead of resenting it, because they are just running around and killing monsters. And that's something all ARPG fans like to do anyway, right? Or add puzzles to disable the traps. That was originally YOUR idea, if memory serves, and it was a fantastic one, if it can be implemented well. Wash your hands, Exile! Last edited by gibbousmoon#4656 on May 25, 2016, 4:31:16 AM
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"Because of AHK, taskkill.exe and that little program, don't remember its name, that can cut active connections? Currently GGG have no way of determining if it is an ISP/PC issue or deliberate program/connection termination. "No, because _details_ of that statements in no plausible way can be described as related to issue #2. Or if they can, then the method of doing so is eluding me. And worst change is putting almost all bosses in new version of maps into fucking small areas, where you can't kite well or dodge stuff. What a terrible idiot invented that I want say to him: dude flick you, seriously flick you very much.
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My solution is to let trap do normal damages, apply dot, debuff/degen, apply random maps effects temporarily AND make mobs a real treat thus forcing you to fight or retreat behind traps etc...
like this it'll make interresting ARPG context without the fear of desynch or dying within second when you are level 90 and have previously survived from demon's demigod powerfull threats, beyond and all !!! ... nothing
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Ideas to skip traps:
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