Chitus' Betrayal - resolving the Labyrinth crisis

So, after reading some of the more sensibile (and sadly, some of the less sensible) posts about the Labyrinth, I was trying to figure out a way, to give people who do not want to the Lab itself, a way to get the Ascendancy points. From what I read, people mostly are ok with the Izaro himself, but they find running the Lab tedious and boring.
At the same time, I think we need to preserve the lore aspect, and the difficulty (and risk) associated with getting Ascendancy Points, as they are pretty powerful reward, and giving them out too easily would mean pretty bad things for HC (and in game balance, in general).

Here are the goals, that my idea wants to achieve:
- Cut the Labyrinth run
- Preserve the difficulty (and risk)
- Make it fit into the lore

What I came up with is:

Chitus' Betrayal (or any alternative name, for that matter) - a quest item that you can get, to enter series of Izaro fights, to get the Ascendancy points.
You could get the item in two ways (I'm unsure which one is better):

- Create it from 7 pieces (could be even quest cards, or something, that are assembled by Tasuni in Act 4), one from each Trial of Ascendancy, and one from Malachai fight
- Get the item from Malachai fight

The item can be used only once, and would create a portal (in town, or any other place), which would lead to Aspirant's Trial directly. (and only in difficulty, that you got your quest item from)

Differences from regular Lab:
- You can only run it solo
- Every Izaro fight has traps in it
- Because you have used Chitus' way of doing things, Izaro is pretty angry at you - he gains Onslaught (20% move/attack/cast speed)
- Izaro drops no loot
- You still enter the regular reward room, but Izaro damaged the enchant device, and grants you no keys to unlock treasure chests.

In this way, you would still need to consider, whenever it is better for you to run Lab, and risk dying inside of it, but having an easier time with Izaro OR skip the risk of Lab, but have a tougher time with Izaro himself. You also skip many of the rewards.

Vote here - STRAWPOLL

Pre-Ps. Izaro could also say different things, to make it more interesting - something along the lines of you being just like Chitus' and so on. Lore is always something nice to explore, and also I'm love to see Izaro being actually angry. :P

Ps. Please, for love of Chris, keep it civil for once.
Pss. Someone could post it on reddit, to get more poll answers. :v

nobody wants to do trails every time they want to enchant an item

"

pandasplaying wrote:

nobody wants to do trails every time they want to enchant an item

... have you even read the thread? Running it using the quest item doesn't allow you to enchant items. >_______> It is only a mean to gain Ascendancy Points. Yet here we go - first "I don't like the idea" vote is in. Oh, beloved democracy... sigh.

Mmm i dont know.

Malachai in Merciless is rippy, more so than Izaro himself. I doubt people would risk fighting him especially in Hardcore to skip to the end.

As someone who love the Labyrinth and doesnt bother with Malachai in Merciless, i dont see myself doing it. Malachai is definitely not worth doing in my opinion (sadly its not even because hes difficult per say, but because i cant see shit when fighting him alot of the time and im surprised they havent made his effects an entirely different color yet because of it).

Also, i dont think Onslaught would be enough. It would have to be Onslaught + that days modifications minimum, plus he would need to be at 100% health rather than 30%. It would have to be harder in order to justify the potential 10~ minutes the "casual" players dont want to spend getting to the final fight for their points.

I think others might like the idea, but i do think what i said about how the fight should be handled is relevant if it were added.

+1, I like your idea (going to vote after posting), expecially the "only solo" thing and only having Ascendancy points as reward.
I'd have the item drop from Malachai - only if you haven't ascended in that difficulty - and be usable only once and only in that specific difficulty (otherwise I could kill Normal Mal and then have Merc Ascendancy, not right imo).
And no exploit like killing Mal without having ascended yet, do the lab normally and then use the item - in that case it would have to be unusable or smtg...

I would keep Izaro as is, no onslaught (and no loot also from his adds) and trap in third fight only.

"

MrTremere wrote:

The main issue people have with the labyrinth probably isn't traps but iteration time.

That may be true for some people, especially those with less than stable connections, but not for me. I have no problem with having one shot at a labyrinth run with no portals. What I hate is the traps.

As a side-note, playing HC, I particularly dislike the fact that you have to go into many traps blind without knowing what your exit route is (even if it turns out to be just off-screen).

The basic idea has been suggested before, and finds most of the anti-lab players fine with it, me included. Fighting Izaro only (even buffed) is at least on par with the rest of the game. Cant see why not.

The suggestion requiring trials to get the item is not helping and thus in the wrong direction, since it still puts the tedious and arcade playstyle between the player and the AC.

The one requiring to kill Malachai to gain access to Izaro - already suggested by EnjoyTheJourney and Pyrokar - and take the item (i suppose 100% chance to drop?) is the preferable one.

I'd rather be bored going through the lab than have to slog through act 4 and then run my face into Malachai in merciless, I hate the Malachai fight more than i do the stupid traps. For normal and cruel yeah it would be an alternative and because you have to fight Malachai anyway i'd do that. GGG have to change something to give an alternative way of getting ascendancy points even if it's just as simple as giving you 1 continue per lab attempt (Hopefully you know what i mean) that'd help

Seems like a pretty cool idea. But I'd bet most of the people who hate the labyrinth will still find issues with this way of ascending too.