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666lol666 wrote:

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swedishdough wrote:

i have got enough of these creatures, nomatter how evasive you are, you can never evoid their spikes and it completely ruins clearspeed, i am about to lose my multi boss map because of these freaks! REMOVE THEM!

I hate those mofos too BUT on the other hand - every piece of content that can not be facerolled is good content.

Agreed, these things just might be a necessary evil. I would however like to see the distance that these projectiles travel reduced somewhat. When party members kill them 2 screens away they should not be able to travel as far as they do.

I assume they are regular projectiles, so unless the reduce the distance of all projectile attacks I don't think its worth. Also if you are far away you are usually only hit by a single spike since they spread out far more.

Also with Abyssal Cry GGG gave the perfect tool to destroy a pack of those and lvl1 isn't that costly. They are mainly a punishing factor for ranged builds, since melees are in close range anyway and can easily use Abyssal Cry, while ranged chars would have to close in to use it.

However I don't feel they are really threatening, even the spikes from rare extra damage porcupines won't oneshot you, and again there are many counters.

And another reason why armor/flat physical/percentage physical reduction is flat out superior to Evasion.

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allbusiness wrote:

And another reason why armor/flat physical/percentage physical reduction is flat out superior to Evasion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_0Qd8Kk6s8&feature=youtu.be

ok man.

Edit: Sorry, but evasion builds with arrow dancing are immune to procupines..

edit2: Bleh, attack based evasion builds are pretty much immune to everthing, lol

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allbusiness wrote:

And another reason why armor/flat physical/percentage physical reduction is flat out superior to Evasion.

yeah right

when one plays white maps - maybe

when this 40k armour character enters an elemental weakness +XX% damage 'as everything' extra damage then it is clearly visible that evasion has a place in this game. these mechanics are so well balanced that each has its place and each sucks in certain situations

porcupine with no mods: phys mitigation
porcupine with ele damage added: evasion

i would not dare to enter t10+ map with added ele damage as pure armour character (esp with unwavering noobtrap keystone)

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sidtherat wrote:

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allbusiness wrote:

And another reason why armor/flat physical/percentage physical reduction is flat out superior to Evasion.

yeah right

when one plays white maps - maybe

when this 40k armour character enters an elemental weakness +XX% damage 'as everything' extra damage then it is clearly visible that evasion has a place in this game. these mechanics are so well balanced that each has its place and each sucks in certain situations

porcupine with no mods: phys mitigation
porcupine with ele damage added: evasion

i would not dare to enter t10+ map with added ele damage as pure armour character (esp with unwavering noobtrap keystone)

Yeah and then you get hit by some leapers and stunned and then you die. There's plenty of things in this game that hardcounter everything, but both Armor and Evasion by themselves pretty much suck, but at least Armor at least works consistently against what it is supposed to (outside of extremely hard physical hits which will kill an Evasion character if it connects anyways).


And sure, you might survive the Porcupines with ele damage added, and then you might not. Because Evasion's life got absolutely gimped compared to the left side of the tree, you have to give up alot of nodes to get a reasonable amount of life for endgame content. So either way, armor is winning out on efficiency of life nodes/defensive mechanics (endurance charges).


The only reason why Evasion is even considered 'good' is because Bows are just dumb and OP as shit. Not because Evasion as a defensive mechanic is good; try walking into a T10+ map without any physical damage reduction and eat a physical hit and see what hapens. Melee Evasion is pretty much unplayable (by melee I mean close range, not Reave or some other pseudo range skill), you eat a hit or two you are likely to die. That's not even remotely the case with armor unless a serious of massive and unfortunate events happen chain together, or you just heavily misplayed.


This is why the Champion is considered broken as shit. He can pick up armor nodes/evasion nodes and get free fortify, while still maintaining point efficiency to pick up decent amount of damage nodes with Bows in order to annihilate everything with Voltaxic Rift. You can pick up the Life/Defense efficiency of the left side of the tree while maintaining enough damage to do anything in the game.

Porcupines are one of the best designed mechanics in game. There are plenty of ways to mitigate them, even the good ole: 'don't kill the whole pack at once'.

Actually porcupines should be buffed - when shattered, should release spikes too, to make the life a bit harder for crit bow 'hold-this-button-down-and-steamroll' builds.

if people insist on building shadows and rangers like marauders (pure life builds).. well.. good luck

i have a shadow that is tankier than most of the end game marauders and he has enough damage to do 100%+ courtyards in reasonable time

evasion so suck, so bad. yeah right

it is just the way people build their characters and how much thought they are prepared to put into the process.

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sidtherat wrote:

if people insist on building shadows and rangers like marauders (pure life builds).. well.. good luck

i have a shadow that is tankier than most of the end game marauders and he has enough damage to do 100%+ courtyards in reasonable time

evasion so suck, so bad. yeah right

it is just the way people build their characters and how much thought they are prepared to put into the process.

Is your Shadow an actual true melee range character? If it's not, that's moot to this discussion. At that point you're playing a pseudo range character. You and I both know that you most likely can't eat a chain of physical hits, if you do you're dead. If you're layering defenses together (as in using Coil/Taste of Hate/Fortify/Endurance Charges/etc.) then those defensive mechanics are arguably stronger on a melee character in most cases, especially when you can get your life pool far higher on the left side of the tree rather than the right side of the tree.


The only reason why a true melee armor character sorta sucks is that the game is more about avoiding damage taken rather than actually making a build that can take hits. Ultimately the best way to play the game is just to avoid hits rather than coming up with something creative that can actually tank and take hits. Best way to do that is to play range and the PEWPEW glass cannon.

LOL I thought this was going to be another thread picking on poor Thistlesage. Poor kid. No one likes him.