Just When The Game Had Roped Me Back In, I Think I’m Done Again
" Re-read my post. I never said it is feasible. On contrary, if you're not willing to memorize the layout then don't expect to plow through the labyrinth. If you don't find it fun, then don't play the labyrinth. And if you're not willing to waste 1 hour in total to get all 6 points, then honestly, you don't deserve those benefits. Labyrinth is 80%+ like regular maps, some small amount of traps and shit and everybody is losing their minds. " You don't even have to run it a lot. You run it as much as you want/need to. As I said, 1 hour in total for 6 points is nothing, if you don't want to invest that much time then you don't deserve it. Especially if you're not CI, if you have some regen and get flasks, you will run through 99%+ of the labyrinth, only really stopping at some seriously tricky trap layout. Your analogy sucks, not applicable. " You should re-read my post as well. So what if you don't like the labyrinth? I don't like it either. But I've dealt with it easily and I got my huge bonuses for almost no effort at all. You don't have to practice anything. Again, labyrinth is 80%+ the regular map content, so how can this tiny amount of traps and stuff (especially if you're life based) impact the gameplay so badly is truly disturbing, it screams entitlement. GGG has already pretty much handed over the powerful ascendancy power-ups, and that's still not enough for people like you. The more I read stuff like this, the more I really think that none of the people like you deserve those Ascendancy points. |
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To all the people who are saying: "Just go to Reddit and get the layout, run the labyrinth and you never have to do it again! Don't search or explore or anything but just go from start to finish!" I have one thing to say:
Thank you for proving my point that the content is annoying and not-fun enough that people are flat-out doing everything they can to avoid the labyrinth as much as possible. Even if you run it 20 times, you're not running it for the challenge of fighting Izaro. You're not running it for the challenge of fighting Argus. You're not running it for the exploration, seeing what loot can be found, seeing if there are puzzles, looking for secret entrances -- none of that. You're running it specifically to get ONE chest (two or more if you're lucky) and to roll an enchantment (and get Ascendancy points if you haven't yet). So you're avoiding content that GGG put in the game -- this is PRECISELY why this needs to be adjusted to be less annoying. If at some point a game makes you go, "Yeah, fuck doing that because it isn't fun," then the developers have failed in design at that point. If all GGG meant the Labyrinth to be was three fights with Izaro, a fight with Argus and that's it, that'd be all the labyrinth is. Instead ,it has multiple extra rooms and all of this extra content -- that we ignore as a matter of course. That's an issue. Again, I'm not saying that we need to remove traps. Re-tune them, perhaps. Make them a bit less immediately deadly or at least easier to determine the patterns to avoid them. This isn't a platform game, and movement isn't nearly as exact and precise as it would be in one of those. |
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" no. they do that to maximize their time/reward ratio. just like people do 820 rotations, use poe.trade, used tempest/warbands reporting websites etc etc i havent run lab today (leveling a new character) but i have planned a 2h session tomorrow as i simply like the challenge/rewards it brings. ill check the map, check what is worth farming and have a blast. i can do it without a map - but why? " you 'run' labs for rewards, enchants, loot or xp (at lvl 70 it gives pretty damn good xp) you 'complete' lab for ascendancy points. do not make it sound like you need to farm lab for that. you run it 3 times per character. not 20. if you have many alts - you still have to do it 3 times (or 2 as some ascendancies have useless 3rd points) and you are set. 20 runs is a) farming, doing it for rewads or fun b) failing somewhere inside and restarting and if you havent noticed: Labyrinth is SUPPOSED to be a speed-run content. it is perfectly fine you speed run past it when lvl 80 - it is by design. you can try that being 'on level' but it is very challenging to do Cruel Lab around lvl 49 or 50 (zone is 55) " lab is both of that - speed farm area for experienced players (that might or might not decide they want extra loot) and a challenging leveling area you need to go for ASC points. both goals are imho achieved perfectly. " you do not need 'precise' movements to pass entire lab without being hit by traps once. traps are HUGE, easily visible and only lag can explain why people report 'movement issues' |
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"And here he is, the self-assighed GGG champion white-knight shill putting someone's preferences under judgment. You obviously weren't paying attention when he said he can do it. He doesn't enjoy it AT ALL. Why... no, HOW is it possible that you still don't get this? Do you really think that because something is possible for someone, that automatically makes it fun for them? Maybe you ought to take up ditch-digging as a hobby. No? Too boring and tedious? C'mon, you just have to push the shovel in the dirt at the right angle, and get the pickaxe out for the big rocks. What's wrong with you? Can't you even dig out rocks? Pff, well there's your problem right there, you don't bother yourself to learn how to dig rocks out properly. You really take the cake, out of all the fanbois here. I hope you get a nice, shiny badge for your efforts. Quoting Saltychipmunk: ...I look at the new act 5 boss where you have to hide behind the statues to survive the bullet hell and all I can think is... how the fuck are zombies going to survive that? They don't know what hiding is... they don't know what dodging is... they are morons. Last edited by joachimbond#0494 on Mar 25, 2016, 3:40:52 PM
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" I hope the next expansion involves ditch digging and we can watch the spectacle of Sidtherat valiantly defending it. Last edited by Vortextreme#0259 on Mar 25, 2016, 4:28:40 PM
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" That would be more fun that what we have now :) Yeah after the newness of the Lab wore off, traps not being fun and like the OP said having to go through several gold key rooms through a maze of impossible traps I gave up. I did get my main Rainbow Nuke character to the 3rd fight several times in Merc and died mainly because of being stupid I guess I decided its to much work to try again and went back to just running Zana Dailys and when that got old again I moved on. I think the Lab is a novel idea and good in concept it just doesn't work for me after a few attempts, not being able to port out and dieing poof its over start again. All though some may like the challenge well good for them, I do not. Hopefully the next expansion will address life after 60 and do something interesting besides mapping until your eyes bleed... until then I am off for other things, might pop back in from time to time, who knows. |
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yeah, a level 68 hoppy jumpy foo foo area doesn't really address the seriously lacking endgame leveling experience in this game.
Too much monotony, not enough high-level maps. Not that the toon i'm playing with right now has progressed past the yellow maps yet, just saying. Izaro for example is a boss who would be cool to meet in a really high-end map. But as he is, he's OP for the area he's in, and his level. Quoting Saltychipmunk:
...I look at the new act 5 boss where you have to hide behind the statues to survive the bullet hell and all I can think is... how the fuck are zombies going to survive that? They don't know what hiding is... they don't know what dodging is... they are morons. |
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The Labyrinth boss, Izaro, is like many of the map end bosses in that he can be a pushover or an impossible to beat boss based of the high RNG of the mods he gets. The fact that GGG is choosing to go the act 4 Malachai route and setting his difficulty level such that we must out-level him by 10+ levels just to have a decent chance to defeat him in the 3rd battle is a sad testament to the fact that GGG can't stop catering to the "more harder please" < 1 % elites that do mental mathematics to min/max or find other ways to an OP build with which they can defeat him (and other map bosses) easily. It's also just a major frustration to have saw and spike traps in the 3rd battle room. Having them is extremely annoying and doesn't serve any fun purpose. For GGG to make a great arpg is good and all but then making it a requirement to either out-level a boss by 10+ levels or dissect the PoE code and learn the formulas that control offense/defense skills or any other mental gymnastics or spend countless hours figuring out what's the absolute best gear and passives to use to beat a boss just to play here and have fun is crazy dumb. Some my like doing that but I sure don't!
A much better solution instead of needing to out-level Lab by 10+ levels just to defeat uber boss Izaro would be to set the map level equal to our build level and then adjust the Izaro difficulty factor appropriately to match our build level. Merc Lab is a level 68 zone and so I should be running it at build level 68 and be able to have a fighting chance to beat 3rd Izaro. Then GGG would not need to super uber him just to not make the final battle an easy walk in the park since we can't just faceroll him with an 80+ level build. By setting the zone level equal to our build level even the mobs and traps won't be just an annoying fly bugging us on a speed run. Even top elites would be finding Izaro a tough challenge if running Merc Lab with a level 90+ build as his difficulty level would equal the build level. Of course this would also mean that GGG would have to set a limit to the number of times we can run it with our exile otherwise we'd just do Lab runs all day long to get maximum exp. Maybe 3 per day. Right now my level 76 Templar Hierophant fire build can faceroll the mobs but I haven't defeated 3rd Izaro yet. Since I'm now 8 levels above the Labyrinth zone level everything else is just drudge work to get through (except the 5 devices puzzle to unlock a door to a special challenge battle... that was anything but boring), yet Izaro is forcing me to bail out or I die. Once I do get sufficiently over-leveled to take him out then any future Lab runs will be a big snoozefest, including him. That is the wrong way for GGG to do Labyrinth. "You've got to grind, grind, grind at that grindstone..."
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but poor QoP in PoE is the father of frustration. The perfect solution to fix Trade Chat: www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2247070 |
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" No, the layout in reddit is for farmers (how many people reroll that much anyway?), people that will play the labyrinth many times in a row, people that actually want to run it. They can or can't find that fun, you can't say. That some people use it to not run it by themselves is another thing. " Or make exploration/killing Izaro with extra mechanics more rewarding so people actually do that. It's not a problem of being annoying (necessarily). " You cannot please everyone, so it's not necessarily the fault of the design (that being said, there are things to criticize, but not the ones you are reading more often). I read "I hate Mario/Prince of Persia/Tomb Raider" and it just baffles me. Those are games beloved universally, not something I would use as a smear point. People will be people. Also, old Prince of Persia and Tomb Raider had even more awful control schemes and somehow people still played them. PoE is a miracle in comparison. The traps are manageable in my opinion. You can sometimes prepare for some gauntlets with careful observation in a safe area (I think the normally useless light radius affix can help to see further in the dark), yet it's not needed. Unless you are having problems with lag or something like that, movement should be good enough if you come prepared. If people are skipping content, there is a design problem for making it less efficient to do it. It's a general problem in the game (there is a lot of skipping already). Add a Forsaken Masters questline https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942 Last edited by NeroNoah#1010 on Mar 25, 2016, 8:55:05 PM
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" ive beat him at lvl 64 as a face hugging melee Slayer with wings of entropy and 3.8k life sorry, but it really is not that big of a problem there is also no RNG to his fight - you just need to remove the adds in 1st and 2nd phase (that is - do not roflstopm him with zillion dps before you can take care of the adds). there are very good video guides explaining the whole fight in 3 minutes. he does 4 attacks from the list and there are like 7 possible adds combination and thats it. easy. the traps are there SPECIFICALLY to make ranged builds invest more in defence or suffer. build equalizer. |
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