Thoughts from a game dev in the industry ...

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krunchor wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

In PoE, if you find a good item that doesn't fit your build, you trade it for something that does. The player is the smart thing in PoE, not the loot.

Is this an action rpg or a trading simulator?

Provably both.

Design-wise (i.e., what do mouse-clicks do, and how often can a skill be used) is awesome. The depth of PoE is insane.

Development-wise (no we stay in NZ, do we leverage company assets to attract a more robust investment system, do we develop an in-house engine, do we vastly over-price MTX, do we refuse to allow carrot-on-stick advancement techniques) are atrocious.

GGG as a game company, are either trolling their customers, or so far in over their heads that the only way out at this point is ritual seppuku.

I pray, that for the long-term survival of the game, they just sell the assets to Tencent, and be done with it.

"There is zero enjoyment in trading... Average player... Smell the coffee"
Dude, that is objectively wrong. Players, in general, love trading. You obviously don't, and that's ok, PoE just isn't the game for you.
I could go on and list a hundred games that have trading at their core. All sorts of games, first-person-shooters, space combat games, racing games, card games, RPGs. The genre doesn't matter. Any type of game can have great trading.

"Is this an ARPG or a trading simulator?"
Both. And that's fuckin' awesome!

"Trade is not going to appeal to the people who prefer self sufficiency."
True. But they are compensated with the satisfaction of getting through the game with a handicap. Doing self-found builds is a good way of adding challenge when you've mastered playing the game as a trader.

"Having no way to influence what kind of stuff..."
We shouldn't be able to influence what drops. The divination cards were, I think, a nice compromise: You can farm here, and have a better chance of maybe getting this specific thing, but in such a way that doesn't affect the actual loot drops. I thought div cards were a very smart idea.
But PoE is open ended. The game cannot know what you are planning. It cannot anticipate what every player needs. Sure, we could introduce a system where "witches get more caster specific drops"... But what if I'm building an Oros Sacrifice flicker strike witch (Because why not? Lol rofl). The game really would be dropping loot against me.
You can't have it both ways. PoE can't be open-ended and loot-smart.

"Map drop rates... Variance... Average..."
This whole map drop problem could be avoided with: "Ok, now Zana missions will always be on a map that is equal to the highest tier you have fully cleared."
Once a day, if they have done the pre-requisite work, everyone gets a single high level map they can't modify. Maybe it'll be crap, maybe it won't. Maybe you'll get lucky and drop good maps while in it, maybe you'll get the the Samual Jackson Shaft. But everyone would get a daily taste of progression without the market being flooded with maps and trivializing the entire high tier mapping system.
Again, just what I rexxon.

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scale_e wrote:

"Having no way to influence what kind of stuff..."
We shouldn't be able to influence what drops. The divination cards were, I think, a nice compromise: You can farm here, and have a better chance of maybe getting this specific thing, but in such a way that doesn't affect the actual loot drops. I thought div cards were a very smart idea.
But PoE is open ended. The game cannot know what you are planning. It cannot anticipate what every player needs. Sure, we could introduce a system where "witches get more caster specific drops"... But what if I'm building an Oros Sacrifice flicker strike witch (Because why not? Lol rofl). The game really would be dropping loot against me.
You can't have it both ways. PoE can't be open-ended and loot-smart.

They suck because they were balanced as items to be traded (it couldn't have been otherwise being supporter items). Also, what I have proposed doesn't require the game knowing what you need, it's just making some farm spots more likely to give some kind of affixes than others, then letting the player choose. Again, I'm not that sold on the idea, but it's something.

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scale_e wrote:

"Map drop rates... Variance... Average..."
This whole map drop problem could be avoided with: "Ok, now Zana missions will always be on a map that is equal to the highest tier you have fully cleared."
Once a day, if they have done the pre-requisite work, everyone gets a single high level map they can't modify. Maybe it'll be crap, maybe it won't. Maybe you'll get lucky and drop good maps while in it, maybe you'll get the the Samual Jackson Shaft. But everyone would get a daily taste of progression without the market being flooded with maps and trivializing the entire high tier mapping system.
Again, just what I rexxon.

Nah, that would be mere patchwork. Also, flooding the market with maps would be increasing the average, not reducing the variance, so your comment doesn't make any sense from a mathematical standpoint.

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krunchor wrote:

Is this an action rpg or a trading simulator?

That's the straw that broke my camel's back. Made a new thread.

However, to properly rephrase the question: Is PoE an action role-playing game or a trading game? Well, both. And that's, like, fucking awesome, man.

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krunchor wrote:

Is this an action rpg or a trading simulator?

It's an ARPG with trading, the latter being optional.

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krunchor wrote:

Currently To progress you need to trade because you cannot find everything you need for your build 100% self found.

Play a build that scales mostly via gem level, use it to find stuff. Then play your end-game build. Like, if you jam out a build that requires Voll's Devotion, Shav's, or Acuity to work properly as your first build, that is your mistake and your problem at the same time.

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krunchor wrote:

I want to level, not spend hours finding the value of items and then have to post them and pray that someone buys it so that I can finally get the item I need.

POE.trade works perfectly fine for uniques, rares miiight be a little more complicated once you get into finding ilvl 84 bases, but even then there's prefix and suffix tables for that. Other than that, buy premium stash tabs, put your item in, price it, wait for a whisper, done...

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krunchor wrote:

There is ZERO gaming enjoyment in trading (at least for the average player) - GGG needs to wake up and smell the coffee

There is lots to enjoy, even for the average player, problem is, you are biased and (maybe) hate trading, as such your statement is highly opinionated and does NOT, in any way shape or form, represent the thoughts of the "average player", if such a thing exists in the first place.

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krunchor wrote:

It is like the labyrinth traps - wtf were they thinking adding that crap, at the very least reduce the trap damage by 95% across the board

Trap damage is fine as is, cap your resists, handle your character properly, EZPZ...

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scale_e wrote:

You can have loot bias

OR

You can have a wonderfully open-ended system of character creation that balances out poor drops by having a complex and unique crafting system and a community that is willing to trade for items.

You can't have both.
The former makes the latter redundant.
Given that there are a metric dick-tonne of games out there with these hand-holding pseudo-RNG elements, I'd rather PoE stay, and expand on, it's current model.

As I've previously said:

Spoiler

"Oh no, I spent currency on this item and it is a shitty rip! I feel bad!"
Congratulations, you just increased the value of those currency items simply by using them. You are effecting the economy and engaging with the community. Also, the high probability of rips will ensure that when you eventually do get good rolls it will feel great.
If you get the good rolls from economy items= "Yay! My persistence paid off!" or "Woohoo! Feelin' lucky!"
But that's not te only way to get those items. For example:
If you get it from a drop= "I feel like I just won the lottery!"
If you buy it from another player= "Snapped up a bargain there! ;)" or "I just made a sound investment!"
If you borrow it from a guildie/friend= "What a great community!" or "I have great friends!"

All of this is made possible because the RNG system is unforgiving. It's hard to get good items. It's an accomplishment. If you take that away and bring in pseudo-RNG loot, crafting, or specific places to grind specific gear, etc etc you harm that reward system. If you make it so X number of hours = X reward, then a lot of the mystery dissappears. The joy dissappears.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm sentimental. But that's just what I reckon.

RNGesus is love.
RNGesus is life.

Scarcity due to harsh RNG is a feature, not a bug.

Disagree.
With pretty much every single word including "OR".

Hell where do I even start? With "can't have both", "hand holding", or maybe with "unique crafting system" most of which ... hm... isn't crafting at all, imo?

Seriously man. Wow.
Your post left me speechless.

We all have "loot-bias"...

Some of us think the loot system is fine as is, others think it is not.

bwahahahaha....

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johnKeys wrote:

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mezmery wrote:

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johnKeys wrote:

and as Mark just said, GGG already did some steps to give more power to the players.

players already oneshot t15 8 mod maps while 5 others collect loot.
even more power?
mm.
ok.

"power" meaning "control" or "illusion of control" in this context.
feeling like one's actions influence one's "luck".

one-shots? hah I'm usually at the receiving end of those.
and... what's a t15 map?

that is what you run, when you play this game properly.

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johnKeys wrote:

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scale_e wrote:

You can have loot bias

OR

You can have a wonderfully open-ended system of character creation that balances out poor drops by having a complex and unique crafting system and a community that is willing to trade for items.

You can't have both.
The former makes the latter redundant.
Given that there are a metric dick-tonne of games out there with these hand-holding pseudo-RNG elements, I'd rather PoE stay, and expand on, it's current model.

As I've previously said:

Spoiler

"Oh no, I spent currency on this item and it is a shitty rip! I feel bad!"
Congratulations, you just increased the value of those currency items simply by using them. You are effecting the economy and engaging with the community. Also, the high probability of rips will ensure that when you eventually do get good rolls it will feel great.
If you get the good rolls from economy items= "Yay! My persistence paid off!" or "Woohoo! Feelin' lucky!"
But that's not te only way to get those items. For example:
If you get it from a drop= "I feel like I just won the lottery!"
If you buy it from another player= "Snapped up a bargain there! ;)" or "I just made a sound investment!"
If you borrow it from a guildie/friend= "What a great community!" or "I have great friends!"

All of this is made possible because the RNG system is unforgiving. It's hard to get good items. It's an accomplishment. If you take that away and bring in pseudo-RNG loot, crafting, or specific places to grind specific gear, etc etc you harm that reward system. If you make it so X number of hours = X reward, then a lot of the mystery dissappears. The joy dissappears.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm sentimental. But that's just what I reckon.

RNGesus is love.
RNGesus is life.

Scarcity due to harsh RNG is a feature, not a bug.

Disagree.
With pretty much every single word including "OR".

Hell where do I even start? With "can't have both", "hand holding", or maybe with "unique crafting system" most of which ... hm... isn't crafting at all, imo?

Seriously man. Wow.
Your post left me speechless.

Where do you even start? Wherever you like, but start somewhere. All you've done is say "I disagree. Here's a list of things I disagree with. I disagree so much Ive been struck dumb."

If you want to "agree to disagree" that's ok, but don't be a dick then leave me hangin'. Bro. Carn. Carn bro.