{3.0} Necronomicon / Raise Spectre Monster Info...[The Unofficial Minion Wiki]

That is a pretty interesting post. Thanks for bringing that up!

It could be the reason why flame sentinel's AI is so reliable is because they have enough mana regen to keep casting fireballs.

Definitely makes me want to test a couple spectre types with blood magic gem that had really good skills and damage but poor ai.

Planning to test Noisome Ophidian, that tentacle eyeball thing that shoots mortar's with tar grounds and
Lavianga's Acolyte since their firestorm is quite strong.

And yeah I do agree if Revenents can just keep firing until everything in their range is dead they will out dps flame sentinels by a large margin since their base damage is like 4 times higher.

Sweet, Report back if anyone finds something op with blood magic =).

Flame Sentinels BiS you sure they beat Undying Incinetaros?

i just tested 1 week ago Incinerators afk kill T13 Voll (afk) just a 3Linked pure spectre gear/build

This is why there are categories and not a list of whats the best or worst.

Incinerators do more damage but flame sentinels are tankier and more reliable/consistent.

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mattc3303 wrote:

Entirely my opinion but I think every spectre in the top tier has a good mix of dmg, tankyness, and AI. Some might be more lacking in one of the three categories but you can't really go too wrong with any of those.

They are there because they are far above anything "good" and down for general map clearing.

I agree Flame sentinels are the most reliable and the reason why pretty much every summoner uses them. Hell I am using them right now with a hybrid srs summoner build I am playing. If flame sentinels was like prenerf revenent level or health scaling burned miscreation level I think it deserves its own category but its not like flame sentinels can clear a map in half the time as the other spectre type in the same category.

If we are talking about sheer damage if you compare the base dmg of incinerators vs flame sentinels. The incinerators has a larger base dmg range, with traps, and what seems like a quicker animation speed.

http://poedb.tw/us/mon.php?n=Undying+Incinerator
http://poedb.tw/us/mon.php?n=Flame+Sentinel

I didnt talk about Incinerators. Actually I have a high opinion of them. I'd see them on par with Sentinels, maybe even better. But laggy.

I also tested grapplers. One can get a good clearspeed with them. But they are a bit tedious.

I theorycrafted so many hours this league on summoner, I'm an expert now regarding them. They are fun to play. But next league I'll play something else I guess, because summoners just lack clearspeed, even the strongest versions like srs, jorrhast aw or low-life traditional summoner or victarios charity summoner.

I tried really everything.

But in the end, no matter how you play it, summoners are tedious and lack clearspeed.

Flame Sentinels can dish out very good damage with generosity anger, dual to triple curse.

The dps of 4 Flame Sentinels goes easily into the 100k's. But still, they are moving slow and dont attack monsters with the same good focus of a player. So in the end, most builds are faster.

No way to compare them to stuff like spark, voltaxic ranger, fakener etc.

It's just not like D2, there werent such insane cookie cutter builds. I dont think Necromancer is too weak, but other builds are way too strong, but thats always been like that, because GGG is good at many things, but certainly not at balancing.

If I had the time, I could hit Top 10 in next SC league with the build that I theorycrafted.

But with summoner? No fking way to do Top 10 no matter how good you are, not even in HC. Not even Havoc could pull off a Top 10 placement with summoner.

Yeah i don't think its fair to compare summoners to top tier meta builds out there. They were never top tier except for that one time with cast on death/health scaling burned miscreation days.

I am pretty sure most of us play it not b/c they want to have the most efficient build possible but they generally like playing the summoner playstyle.

For those interested, footage of my new build, called "Spider Goddess"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1UsJaZCFCA

Using Leaping Spiders.

Been playing summoner exclusively this league (and many many past leagues) due to ascendancies. I appreciate this thread as its almost like a wild goose chase finding information on minion stats.

I have tried both Witch (necro) and Marauder (Juggernaut) necromancers both to great effect this league. I want to add a few things to some spectres that have not made it to the list in great detail. I hope some of these points make their way to the OP if accepted.

Void Bearers - Best single target spectre in the game by far with testing up to lvl 81 map bosses. Spell echo works with their version of incinerate, coupled with other "more" links they will melt just about anything in a 5 link setup.

Links- Primary 3 {Elemental Focus, Minion Damage, Spell Echo}, 5th link {Fire Penetration/LMP/Faster Projectiles/Controlled Destruction}

Towering Figments (Arena maps++) - Best Tank in the game if you're going up against heavy AOE bosses. They have massive HP, giving them regen capable of soloing merc mally. These also almost exclusively use Puncture, wrecking anything that moves.

Links - Primary 3 {Melee Physical Damage, Melee Physical Damage on Full Life, Minion Damage} 5th Link {Faster Attacks, Minion Speed, Melee Splash}

Devourers - (Dark forest, Spider Lair) Underestimated mega damage dealers. These are ranged casters, and almost never melee given they are positioned correctly. If you Convocate them, they will appear around you above ground and instantly hit for massive amounts of damage. Also, if they are currently firing their ranged attack, they will continue to do so even at close range when Convocated.

Links - Primary 3 {Minion Damage, LMP, Minion Speed} 5th Link {Faster Attacks}

Note: You want to use Victario's Charity, Flesh offering faster attacks and minion speed to get them going as quickly as possible. Slower minions gain the most value from speed bonuses and usually the slowest minions deal the most damage. Though that is 100% debateable.

Arc Mages (Piety's crew from Barracks area A3, Colonade, Promenade) - Probably the second best damage i've seen WITH utility. These auto cast from afar, chain 2 times and shock everything in their path. They also cast a reflect/thorns buff on your minions. If linked to Innervate they almost always shock and if they kill, they gain onslaught.

Links - Primary 3 {Minion Damage, Spell Echo, Controlled Destruction} 5th Link {Minion Speed/Innervate/Lightning Pen}

You mention the Burned Miscreations, but what about the Chaos Degen Bears? Do new supports make them work? I assume Unrighteous Fire can only apply once, just like multiple Righteous Fires wont stack, so maybe bear+burn man is better?

You mention blood magic helping AI, what about high clarity?

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hTwo wrote:

You mention the Burned Miscreations, but what about the Chaos Degen Bears? Do new supports make them work? I assume Unrighteous Fire can only apply once, just like multiple Righteous Fires wont stack, so maybe bear+burn man is better?

You mention blood magic helping AI, what about high clarity?

hi, i just did some testing a few minutes ago.

i put my thoughts regarding degen spectres here: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/4e44zg/necro_degen_specter_idea/

on another note, i was testing lavianga's acolyte (firestorm / flame surge guys in kaom dream) and their damage is quite respectable. here are my links

spec - minion damage - spell echo - inc crit dmg - conc eff - fire penetration

now you may ask, why crits? i'm using necromantic aegis with malachai's loop, a unique shield that gives you 20% chance to gain a power charge on hit, +2 to max power charges, and 6% inc spell dmg per power charge. furthermore, unlike players, minions gain 200% increased critical strike chance per power charge. at their penultimate count of max power charges (4 charges), that's 800% increased crit chance, which off a 6% base crit firestorm leads to a [6 * (1 + 8.0)] = 54% crit chance. if you link a crit chance gem and a pcoc gem the crit chance would be even higher.

as i've stated, their damage is quite nice. but their biggest drawback is that their firestorm is their long-range engagement skill. at first i thought they wouldn't cast firestorm because they didn't have the mana, so i linked blood magic to it but they still stopped casting firestorm. this is because once they get to melee range they will start autoattacking (default attacking) and casting flame surge, at which point they lose almost all effectiveness. you have to constantly keep convocating them backwards so they'll be far enough away to cast firestorm. if their ai was just nice enough to keep casting firestorm, these would actually be a very nice spectre to run with.

bored, so was doing some more testing with croaking chimerals (sceptre of god frogs that use arctic breath). long story short, their arctic breath provides AMAZING cc when linked with gmp, but as with lavianga's acolytes, they have cast range issues.

i think i know why flame sentinels have such stellar ai now.

it's because they have no default attack to fall back onto.

minions with spells but also with close-range initiation (generally some kind of attack, whether it's a default attack or something like leap slam) may have great ability when in range, but once it's close-quarters combat you can kiss your spectre utility and damage goodbye.

this is why the best spectre minions either don't have an attack to begin with, or their raison d'etre is an attack (or helps them close the distance, in the case of undying dischargers).


bonus testing: since revenants sound like somebody is about to throw up and shuffle about making too much noise, i wanted to see if there were other spectres that synergised with wrath very well, so any spectre that used lightning spells.

first try was drifting eyes ("polaroids", charged lightning tendrils mobs in act 1). contrary to the unofficial wiki, their lightning damage skill is a SPELL, not an attack. it can be supported by spell echo (and presumably aoe supports). however unlike regular lightning tendrils, their version has a charge time which is also channeled, so if the enemy mobs are very mobile, they not only miss their first cast, but the second one from spell echo will also likely miss. in addition to their mechanical flaws, they possess ai flaws, specifically the drawbacks mentioned above - melee attack in range prevents them from snapping flash photography.

after that, i tried bearded shamans, goatmen that cast spark and shock nova from act 1. since wrath is a more modifier, and each spark projectile will benefit from it, i thought of using links a non-voltaxic self-spark caster would use - namely, inc duration and fork. but at the end i settled for

spec - increased duration - spell echo - faster casting - minion damage - lightning penetration

this would allow for the most spark projectiles on the screen.

interestingly in my findings, spark was actually their long-range engagement spell. once they move into position, instead of using a default attack, they spam their spark nova like there's no tomorrow. and it's actually fucking ridiculous, because the "dead zone" of shock nova is negated by multiple goats overlapping their novae, and second, they basically permashock their target. voll died in about 8 seconds to this setup with dual curse ele weak + conductivity and freezing pulse to proc ee.

since the majority of monsters will engage melee, goats will be casting nova 85% of the time. to that end i removed increased duration for concentrated effect. voll fell in about 5 seconds to this combination.

if these mobs were obtained from a higher level area, like act 3 or 4, they would be strong contenders to revenants. plus, their goat bleating is sooo much more aurally pleasing than HHRRGHGHFHFH revenant grunts. also, it's too bad there's no way to convert minions' lightning damage to chaos, as to benefit from poison ala voltaxic spark. otherwise this would be the absolute best, top tier damage spectre out there, maybe even better than voltaxic spark itself!

maybe one day a shield that converts a damage element to chaos might come out? necromantic aegis shenanigans time...

finally, saving the worst for last...undying aristocrats. at first i forgot that their "lightning nova" is actually like lightning trap, and not like shock nova. and because you can no longer shotgun with projectiles, their damage is absolutely abysmal. also they use default attack like 75% of the time. don't bother with them.