Here is why the Labyrinth favours softcore and is a very bad design.

"
dudiobugtron wrote:
Are you saying that the Hardcore Labyrinth is too... hardcore for you?
"
Pyrokar wrote:
^there is no way to plan for when you will get hit by a trap. If you use vaal disc beforehand you have like 4sec to complete a whole trap maze, if you do it after getting hit you are casting it on top of traps. Nice try but no.


I dunno then. Get better or figure out better solution yourself? I have a solution that WORKED FOR ME, yet this is still not enough for you. Use Vaal Disci when you get hit? (not like it has very long cast anyways). 4sec? Lol. If you want to get endless regen, so you can just step on every trap and live, I say you are doing it wrong.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
https://joeduncan123.imgur.com
https://joeduncan1234.imgur.com
"
Rangers wrote:
Guy 1: labyrinth is designed for softcore scrubs, i cannot tank it with my life node , es 10k life , logout auto pot bot programs.
Guy 2: u wot m8?
Guy 1: awful BAD DESIGN, I FACE TANK t50 maps but traps HIT 3k, You softcore Scrubs .
Guy 2: what about playing standard m8?
Guy 1: oh, never thought about it. .... ( 3 mins later ) BUT IM A HARDCORE PLAYER, IM THE BEST IN THE WORLD SOFTCORE FOR CASUAL TRASH....


This really made me laugh thank you. haha
I did not intend for the thread to be perceived as an attack to softcore heroes. I was listening to "working class heroes" by Greenday when thinking about this so i thought it would be fitting. I will change the OP so that people will hopefully not hang on the way i think about softcore players.

What's also funny is that the lyrics pretty much give a very precise definition of softcore players if you replace "working class heroes" with "softcore heroes" in the song.

Btw the guy that did atziri with Ci and EB really was a hero to me.

To get back on topic :

"
Turbodevil wrote:
The problem:

Traps deal percentage damage. If you gear defensively and go for large hp/es pool, this does nothing to help you against traps. Except, your recovery will take longer, resulting in less ehp overall after you are done with traps.

Basically, your defenses (against traps) suffer if you gear/spec deffenisvely. Which is bad design.

I propose solution:

Traps deal percentage of base life combined with flat damage. Example (numbers pulled out of my @ss):
- trap used to deal 50% of health+ES per second on all difficulties
- trap now deals 25% of health+ES + 100 per second on normal
- trap now deals 25% of health+ES + 500 per second on cruel
- trap now deals 25% of health+ES + 1000 per second on merciless

This way traps will not be trivial regardless on difficulty, but still high health/ES players will live noticably longer against them for their ehp investment

Offtopic

Hardcore/softcore/it's hard!/it's easy!/ascendancy points should be free/I like traps/I hate labirynth/Ponies are kewl

Seriously, how does above add anything to dicussion about this particluar mechanic?


^ I like what i am seeing here. Nice suggestion.
I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready.
Last edited by Pyrokar#6587 on Mar 10, 2016, 7:46:11 AM
@pyrokar, if you build a high EHP tank, shouldn't your recovery match that principle?

A high ehp source seems flawed if it's not backed up with sustain in my opinion.

Would it be favorable to reduce your life pool, but increase your ES pool? Since ES has a natural regen that happens very rapidly you would then take damage only on your ES pool, which could be sustained by
out-of-combat regen.

If you have 50%/50% pools, i reckon your in for a brutal ride due to being forced to actively recover your primary source.

If however you would have 30%/70% that suddenly changes the entire approach to the labyrinth and simply forces you out of combat a few time when hit by a trap.

I am assuming you play careful and take the time to finish the labyrinth.

Peace,

-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
Personally I like the lab I Ripped 2 hc characters in there to traps so far and I still like the lab.

Each death was because I screwed up period. I will probably lose more characters to the damn traps to. Eventually I will learn not to panic when I make a mistake and the trap rips will go away.

There is nothing wrong with the way traps deal damage what is wrong is people would rather complain about the content instead of admitting they screwed up on their run.
The labyrinth crashing a couple of times in the last room was my fault, I admit. I only have 8 GB of RAM, way too little for this awesome game to run properly. Should have upgraded to 16 GB.
"
Johny_Snow wrote:
The labyrinth crashing a couple of times in the last room was my fault, I admit. I only have 8 GB of RAM, way too little for this awesome game to run properly. Should have upgraded to 16 GB.


Ha I would not say that is your fault that is just GGG's Un optomized asset loading. I have really solid rig and have crashed 3 times just entering the lab.
"
Boem wrote:
@pyrokar, if you build a high EHP tank, shouldn't your recovery match that principle?

A high ehp source seems flawed if it's not backed up with sustain in my opinion.

Would it be favorable to reduce your life pool, but increase your ES pool? Since ES has a natural regen that happens very rapidly you would then take damage only on your ES pool, which could be sustained by
out-of-combat regen.

If you have 50%/50% pools, i reckon your in for a brutal ride due to being forced to actively recover your primary source.

If however you would have 30%/70% that suddenly changes the entire approach to the labyrinth and simply forces you out of combat a few time when hit by a trap.

I am assuming you play careful and take the time to finish the labyrinth.

Peace,

-Boem-


Just to get something clear here, i don't need any help or suggestions for dealing with the lab. I did it twice with no experience beforehand and survived and i can do it again. What i have to do to make it easier for myself though, is to respec my build into something "softcory" and to get the shitiest items i can find with no life or es to have as a low life pool as possible and then change gear before izaro. I think that's bad design. That's what i've been trying to get people to understand. Thanks for the suggestions though.
I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready.
Last edited by Pyrokar#6587 on Mar 10, 2016, 10:17:32 AM
"
Pyrokar wrote:

Just to get something clear here, i don't need any help or suggestions for dealing with the lab. I did it twice with no experience beforehand and survived and i can do it again. What i have to do to make it easier for myself though, is to respec my build into something "softcory" and to get the shitiest items i can find with no life or es to have as a low life pool as possible and then change gear before izaro. I think that's bad design. That's what i've been trying to get people to understand. Thanks for the suggestions though.


Apologies pyrokar.

It was not my intent to suggest you didn't know what your doing, it was quite apparent from your OP that you are.

I was simply trying to point out a way how you could run the instance without needing to swap gear in and out.

Though your argument still stands, arguably hybrids have been shafted as long as PoE has been running.
Similarly to evasion melee they are simply in a sort of ideological "this should function" space, without many tools to actually facilitate it.

I think moving away from % based traps is a bad move in general though, given how the labyrinth is suppose to force all participants in equal danger.
Which granted does solidify your argument even further, since this is currently no the case in practice.

Peace,

-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
@Boem No need to apologise good sir. You have done nothing wrong. You tried to help and this is all this thread needs. To brainstorm ideas to fix ci and hybrid build's problems with the labyrinth.
I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready.

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