SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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dickhole_mcghee wrote:

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miljan wrote:

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dickhole_mcghee wrote:

Srsly, which parts of his post have nothing to do with reality? Use bullet points if necessary.

All of it. Every time he comes back he thinks of some new reason why it should not change (because last reasons he had where crushed every time). I mean the last thing I read because of lore or marketing...lool. I mean he could just say at this point, it should not change because he just doesnt want GGG to change it, as he doesnt have anything logical to say anymore.

Ok, ignoring for a second that much of what he's posted DOES have much to do with reality (and 'all of it' being such a lol/sightastic response)...

How on earth do you people come to the conclusion that he or me or whoever needs to find a reason it should not change? That's all sorts of fallaciously absurd. The onus is on you to make a compelling argument why it should change.

Because thats the fucking thing he said in his own post. I dont know what you want, nor what you stand for, cant remember all the people on this forum. But he himself said it that he would hate if GGG change the lab how people suggested in this thread, and is continuing to think up all kind of reason why it should not change. And every time its something new. Now he mowed to some hypothetical questions and again getting crushed. Its funny to read what he will think up next

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goetzjam wrote:

Hard content, not entirely sure, it has an additional trap you can suppress by attacking it (they added a trap that is not melee friend, I guess that was bound to happen) other then that the traps can likely do a higher % of damage, but how exactly is it going to be "extremely hard" when the person showcasing it in the video has less playtime likely then your average forum poster?

Having access to more points, is adding new depth to builds, thats like saying that the last 2 points you get don't matter at all, in a great number of cases this allows for you to finish out 2 sets of 4 point paths, its very significant and its implications should not be downplayed.

100 and the last 2 ascendancy points are very different goals, 100 requires lots and lots of mapping, while the last 2 do not. If I had to guess most level 90 characters will have access to do this higher level lab and complete it without much challenge, when means its pretty normal for characters to get those last points, while its not normal for the characters to get the last 10 points from the level 90>100 grind.

This isn't just for the 1%, I think this is for anyone that reaches mid tier maps, while the challenge itself might be of higher level, I don't think it will be THAT high of level.


Anyway I do think its funny that now people are going to say its ok to move AC points 1-6 out of the lab, but keep 7-8 in the lab, where is the logic in that? IMO its nothing but proof of how pathetic the cause really is because if they were to remove the AC from the lab, with the exception of the higher ones, its only going to be a matter of time before I hear you all complain that "they moved the other AC points out of the lab why won't they remove the last 2"

WTF has additional type trap to do with hard content? Man cut this bullshit. The videos are of devs playing it at the spot or sending this marketing material as they always fucking did.

Access to more points, is just more points. Its not a new mechanic put behind a bullshit trap gameplay. Its same as normal points from your tree. This will be a new hard end game as thats what some of those high level people asked that play standard. They want a hard lab version. And no, not anyone will be able to do it, as said in the videos and marketing materials they got directly talking to devs. It will be hard, and you will need time to finish them and find all the trials in maps.

The only funny thing is that with your suggestion you shoot your self in the foot, expecting I dont know what. And you are the least person that should talk about logic. The pathetic thing is that removing the points from the lab changes nothing to you or anyone here. Literally nothing. If you like the lab you will do it and get the points, if you dont than the devs should give the option to get them with normal POE gameplay, not some mario bullshit.

Next time think before making suggestion so you don't hit the wall with them. Omg its played by the journalist, it means it must be easy. Holy fuck, how low can you go more in lack of any logic?

I dont really want to interrupt the wonderful spam of both sides, but the only thing titles say is how attached and overly invested some people are in the game. Meaning they believe they have spend way too much money/time to be able to objectively judge various changes, they simply CANT but support every change even if it is bad for the game itself.

Having said that there are surely supporters who can judge based on (plenty of) facts presented here as well as in other threads why the whole issue still stands. Those who have grasped what this is about even made suggestions towards the matter (previously they were fighting with tooth and nail against it) to help find a solution to the obviously divisive content.

Certain people like me wont run the labyrinth no matter how much GGG tries to sweeten the whole deal, because straight up the labyrinth just takes a shit on everything PoE used to stand for, we will man up and play the game we are used to, the game we supported and the game we fall in love with, not some shitty arcade clone from the 80'. Some testosterone-deprived individuals will switch from HC to SC to just mess around with those points. There are others who feel like me regarding the matter but they will bow their head, drop on their knees and blow GGG to get to the good parts afterwards. Some will mess with the labyrinth just to get through some of the challenges they will implement. Some genuinely like the arcade playstyle and good for them for having fun. Some are just malevolent arseholes who enjoy themselves only because some people cant enjoy that content. Some of those are obviously dangerous for the game, a cancerous entity that must be cured. Others are just sheep that likes whatever GGG feeds them, and like the good sheeps they are they would never bite the hand that feeds them. Props to the players that legit like the playstyle and enjoy the labyrinth, everyone else should take his time and think what the OP is really about and what YOU play the game for.

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There is a fourth Labyrinth, and it's accessed through end-game maps. High level players will gradually complete difficult map versions of the Trials of Ascendancy to gain access to the Endgame Labyrinth.

From todays announcement

So what we have here is they decided to gate the last 2 points in a similar arcade playstyle, basically labyrinth as it is now but higher level area, with even the trials being in maps. As i mentioned countless times before im against in any form of gating such crucial content behind anything but lets discuss a hypothetical scenario here that i had actually mentioned it might happen (and im so excited that it might indeed be the case).

Hypothesis : Lets say the map trials are for example 75lvl areas (t8 map) and the "uber" labyrinth is indeed the t14 they revealed. Meaning not only the last 2 AC points are gated behind arcade and alienating gameplay but also behind a t14 map which is hard as fuck to get, and behind Izaro who if you see the damage he does at merci lab its only natural that this t14 version of him is directly comparable to Core Malachai. Now for the shake of this arguments lets say you cant party on those specific map trials and map labyrinth. How would you feel that such a crucial part of character development is denied to you? Would you still support the countless ignorant, reality-defying and shitty pseudo-arguments you make regarding AC points staying as they are? Honestly cant you see how this is bad design?


Probably most of this will fall on deaf ears, so ill try to reach GGG. Can we please get some data regarding people running the lab? How many runs compared to maps etc? A bit more detailed one from what was realeased a while ago.

If the above is too much work for nothing, at least answer honestly with a simple yes or no : Are there any plans on reworking how ascendancy points are acquired? Leaving the whole issue unanswered is like treating your supporters and playerbase like rubbish. At least say that, in a develpoment manifesto or a post (ill take even reddit at this point), silence is worse than a negative in that question. For fucks shake dont be so apathetic on the matter.

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dickhole_mcghee wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I never said you don't understand the English language.

...

*cough*

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Turtledove wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

I think dick's first language isn't english. That's fine, it isn't mine either. Here are some other words that can be used instead of that one.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gate+synonyms

Hope it helped. :)

Sorry for getting off topic. You might be right but, I think the main problem is that dick likes to argue using a question and answer technique. That can work great in a one-on-one verbal conversation. In written especially in a forum format like this, it doesn't work. What is needed is for the person to instead present the argument in a fully complete form and then the discussion can go on from there.

Come on now.

Is that supposed to prove I said you don't understand the English language? It proves just the opposite. It also seems to prove that Pyrokar didn't say you don't understand the English language. He said he thought that your first language isn't English. I told him he might be right? You must be trolling me?

Since closed beta I have always kept returning to Poe. This was one of my favourite games and I have happily supported it. The game and GGG was totally worth it and I do not have any regrets.
Sadly, once Lab and ascendancy gated points was introduced I discovered that I disliked that kind of gameplay (worst of all is that if you die you have to do it all over again from the start ) so un-fun that I left PoE in hope that this will be changed in next big patch / expansion.

After recent announcement, it seems that this will be first expansion that I will pass despite some nice changes.

Couldn't GGG consider opening additional league similar to softcore / Normal where ascendancy points would be gated behind some other stuff other than labyrinth ? So on that way all could be happy and GGG would have plenty more happy costumers, and all those who like labyrinth would still have the game as it is ?

Anyway, goodbye and I wish Peace and the best luck to Everyone.

After reading this tittle for a hundred time I have to comment something I see that is weird: I always read AC as Assassin's Creed and wonder why this guy want to remove assassin's creed from lab? Maybe the traps? Then I remember it is ASC from Ascendancy.

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Elafar wrote:

Couldn't GGG consider opening additional league similar to softcore / Normal where ascendancy points would be gated behind some other stuff other than labyrinth ? So on that way all could be happy and GGG would have plenty more happy costumers, and all those who like labyrinth would still have the game as it is ?

Anyway, goodbye and I wish Peace and the best luck to Everyone.

New league to fix this problem is just a overkill really. We dont need a new league, we need new option added to the core game.

The lab is a worthless POS, get rid of it already.

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Regulator wrote:

Spoiler

I dont really want to interrupt the wonderful spam of both sides, but the only thing titles say is how attached and overly invested some people are in the game. Meaning they believe they have spend way too much money/time to be able to objectively judge various changes, they simply CANT but support every change even if it is bad for the game itself.

Having said that there are surely supporters who can judge based on (plenty of) facts presented here as well as in other threads why the whole issue still stands. Those who have grasped what this is about even made suggestions towards the matter (previously they were fighting with tooth and nail against it) to help find a solution to the obviously divisive content.

Certain people like me wont run the labyrinth no matter how much GGG tries to sweeten the whole deal, because straight up the labyrinth just takes a shit on everything PoE used to stand for, we will man up and play the game we are used to, the game we supported and the game we fall in love with, not some shitty arcade clone from the 80'. Some testosterone-deprived individuals will switch from HC to SC to just mess around with those points. There are others who feel like me regarding the matter but they will bow their head, drop on their knees and blow GGG to get to the good parts afterwards. Some will mess with the labyrinth just to get through some of the challenges they will implement. Some genuinely like the arcade playstyle and good for them for having fun. Some are just malevolent arseholes who enjoy themselves only because some people cant enjoy that content. Some of those are obviously dangerous for the game, a cancerous entity that must be cured. Others are just sheep that likes whatever GGG feeds them, and like the good sheeps they are they would never bite the hand that feeds them. Props to the players that legit like the playstyle and enjoy the labyrinth, everyone else should take his time and think what the OP is really about and what YOU play the game for.

"

There is a fourth Labyrinth, and it's accessed through end-game maps. High level players will gradually complete difficult map versions of the Trials of Ascendancy to gain access to the Endgame Labyrinth.

From todays announcement

So what we have here is they decided to gate the last 2 points in a similar arcade playstyle, basically labyrinth as it is now but higher level area, with even the trials being in maps. As i mentioned countless times before im against in any form of gating such crucial content behind anything but lets discuss a hypothetical scenario here that i had actually mentioned it might happen (and im so excited that it might indeed be the case).

Hypothesis : Lets say the map trials are for example 75lvl areas (t8 map) and the "uber" labyrinth is indeed the t14 they revealed. Meaning not only the last 2 AC points are gated behind arcade and alienating gameplay but also behind a t14 map which is hard as fuck to get, and behind Izaro who if you see the damage he does at merci lab its only natural that this t14 version of him is directly comparable to Core Malachai. Now for the shake of this arguments lets say you cant party on those specific map trials and map labyrinth. How would you feel that such a crucial part of character development is denied to you? Would you still support the countless ignorant, reality-defying and shitty pseudo-arguments you make regarding AC points staying as they are? Honestly cant you see how this is bad design?


Probably most of this will fall on deaf ears, so ill try to reach GGG. Can we please get some data regarding people running the lab? How many runs compared to maps etc? A bit more detailed one from what was realeased a while ago.

If the above is too much work for nothing, at least answer honestly with a simple yes or no : Are there any plans on reworking how ascendancy points are acquired? Leaving the whole issue unanswered is like treating your supporters and playerbase like rubbish. At least say that, in a develpoment manifesto or a post (ill take even reddit at this point), silence is worse than a negative in that question. For fucks shake dont be so apathetic on the matter.

Very nicely put, neat and reasonable. I would too love to see "Can we please get some data regarding people running the lab? How many runs compared to maps etc?" I am fairly sure the numbers will less than 20%, even 10%. During my play time I knew only few people that run the lab numerous times a day. Everyone else just did it once and forgot about it.

Me, I temporally quit PoE mid Perandus for two reasons. Labyrinth and game performance. Even when I felt like hating lab I still run it for the points though it was not enjoyable at all. Just something you have to get through as quickly as possible and forget. This is not how I want to play PoE and it pains me a lot.

Having two big group of players with such opposite opinions and even hostile attitudes toward each other ?
IMHO most elegant solution and no Overkill at all would be to split those two communities like HC and SC are already separated.

Piece

im very disapointed and kinda sad that they arent changing the way to get ascendancy point, i wont be playing poe this summer or later i guess