SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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miljan wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Its higher level, we don't know how high level though, the only information we know is that you must complete trials inside of maps and the data mined information indicated the enchantments being level 75. We also know they are adding a new map but its a "red" white map, which doesn't indicate to me that its purpose is just for the lab, but rather it shares the same layout of something being added in this patch. (which can have to do with the league, not the lab)

So I don't think its correct to assume that so few people will get access to these ascendancy points.


The 2 points most def add something new, specifically to scion because the whole bypass class thing wasn't a big deal, now it is because it enables a character to min max the skill tree far more easily. Secondly, yes you could get the 2 additional points you are going to get, but you had to give up something to get them, now you don't. Your character isn't "complete" until you have them.

2\8 is 1\4th, its actually pretty substantial, I think it makes the most difference for scion, but the other classes, like pathfinder become MUCH better as well.

I am pretty sure that the lab will be of high level, and not a lot of people will do it. They already said it on videos it will be extremely hard content to do.

No 2 points dont add anything new. That is not a new mechanic in the game that you need to finish the lab in map to unlock it. Its just more point that you get for reword. Saying your character is not complete until you get them is false, because you have max of 100 level, it doesnt mean your character is not complete on level 80 as he will miss 20 more passive points and similar.

Still its just 25% for a very small group of people that will complete it. So, your suggestion is actually good. And would work without problems

Hard content, not entirely sure, it has an additional trap you can suppress by attacking it (they added a trap that is not melee friend, I guess that was bound to happen) other then that the traps can likely do a higher % of damage, but how exactly is it going to be "extremely hard" when the person showcasing it in the video has less playtime likely then your average forum poster?

Having access to more points, is adding new depth to builds, thats like saying that the last 2 points you get don't matter at all, in a great number of cases this allows for you to finish out 2 sets of 4 point paths, its very significant and its implications should not be downplayed.

100 and the last 2 ascendancy points are very different goals, 100 requires lots and lots of mapping, while the last 2 do not. If I had to guess most level 90 characters will have access to do this higher level lab and complete it without much challenge, when means its pretty normal for characters to get those last points, while its not normal for the characters to get the last 10 points from the level 90>100 grind.

This isn't just for the 1%, I think this is for anyone that reaches mid tier maps, while the challenge itself might be of higher level, I don't think it will be THAT high of level.


Anyway I do think its funny that now people are going to say its ok to move AC points 1-6 out of the lab, but keep 7-8 in the lab, where is the logic in that? IMO its nothing but proof of how pathetic the cause really is because if they were to remove the AC from the lab, with the exception of the higher ones, its only going to be a matter of time before I hear you all complain that "they moved the other AC points out of the lab why won't they remove the last 2"

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dickhole_mcghee wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Dear fellow PoE players,

There are some people that dislike labyrinth. It doesn't make sense to me that some people that like labyrinth have such hatred and derision of us, just because we dislike labyrinth. Some seem so incensed that they have to belittle, ridicule and insult us. It really doesn't make sense. I really don't understand what you hope to accomplish by this mean behavior. There have been many that have quit playing PoE because of the labyrinth. This is just going to continue. Your mean behavior will just exasperate that problem.

You motherhubbards said I don't understand the english language when I asked about establishing a working definition for 'arpg'.

Let's just come back to reality for a second.

I was waiting for page 100 to do the thorough recap/takedown but I could give it a go earlier. Are you curious when and in what context Regulator first started calling people 'white knights'?


p.s. Oh look, goetz already said essentially the same thing. In before he gets insulted and trolled again?

I never said you don't understand the English language.

I really don't understand what the above post is meant to accomplish. I see no purpose in establishing a working definition of arpg? I responded to what my guess was regarding the point you might be trying to get at. If I was right then respond to that. If I guessed wrong then tell us what the point is about arpg definitions. I'm not interested in your white knight proposed discussion but I have no idea why you would want to know whether or not I'm interested?

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Pyrokar wrote:

Since we are answering hypothetical questions, let me ask this:

If next patch GGG said fuck it, we first person shooter now like borderlands (which the wiki states as an arpg) and a thread like this were created. Would the same people come here and say "Yea sure, i mean you had to aim with the mouse before so there is not much difference in the gameplay, but the lore, don't touch the lore or i'll cut you!"?

PYROKAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

might be one response




No but srsly wtf is a "borderlands"? Again I have no idea about the nerd shit you people talk about, with your Grim Diablo Part 6 : The Torchlightening and so forth. I play the path of the exiled persons.

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Turtledove wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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That is that if the two additional ascendancy points are tied to the tier 14 Plaza map then it is not really important. Very few characters even reach level 14 maps

And if its not tied to that map and is available at t7 or whatever ilevel 75+ is?

I doubt its only tied to that SPECIFIC map, that wouldn't really makes sense if you think about it.

Based on existing content, white monsters would drop ilvl 75 at tier 8. I don't think the last two ascendancy points would be nearly as important as the first 6. The main problem with trap game play is that it is boring tedious and not fun for many people. The more players have to play content that they consider boring tedious and not fun the bigger the problem. The size of this problem is going to differ from person to person in a wide range. For example, many people have already quit PoE and more have quit since GGG didn't announce a change to Labyrinth yesterday, while others love the labyrinth.

It would make more sense to me if it was based on a specific map but I could see it going either way.

Well obviously the last 2 aren't overall as important as the first 6, but I think they are very much important to the game. Not only does this additional higher level lab mean that characters have an endgame lab to play in, but they have the ability to do that much more with their classes, which is a significant change in balance, compared to before. Like I said pathfinder might be one of the best examples of a class that went from being relatively underwhelming to actually being good again.


I understand that some people don't view the traps as fun, but a lot of the content in poe people can view as not fun, if they so choose. But to quit over something you really don't have to spend that much time dealing with, for example standard players specifically, I think it just asinine. Then there are players like yourself that haven't quit, but won't stop QQing on the forums about it. I mean it really doesn't help just to cry and say it needs to be changed. If the gameplay is unfun, then perhaps suggest ways that they possibly could be made more fun or consider the options in the thread, like having a longer way to go without perhaps dealing with as much or any of the traps. (maybe multiple mini bosses in each room or something, idk)

GGG knows that each expansion they do can and will alienate and piss off a set of players, because they are large changes to the game. They accept that people will quit or new players might not like it, so mentioning these as factors, is irrelevant, every change GGG does one way or another can lead to old players quitting or new ones not liking it.

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dickhole_mcghee wrote:

How on earth do you people come to the conclusion that he or me or whoever needs to find a reason it should not change? That's all sorts of fallaciously absurd. The onus is on you to make a compelling argument why it should change.

People saying they don't like trap game play. People saying that they create fewer new characters because they are avoiding content that they don't like playing. People quitting is the reason it needs to change. You don't need to care about these kind of things but GGG should care and I believe they do care.

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goetzjam wrote:

I think it just asinine.

The problem is that it is a fact. People are quitting whether or not you think it is asinine. Most just leave and don't announce anything. You targeting me is missing the point. I'm trying to communicate why people are quitting in order to try to make the game better so people don't quit.

Regarding making suggesting that would make things better, I suggest you look in the OP. There are many suggestions there. I suspect that GGG will come up with their own solution though.

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Turtledove wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

I think it just asinine.

The problem is that it is a fact. People are quitting whether or not you think it is asinine. Most just leave and don't announce anything. You targeting me is missing the point. I'm trying to communicate why people are quitting in order to try to make the game better so people don't quit.

Regarding making suggesting that would make things better, I suggest you look in the OP. There are many suggestions there. I suspect that GGG will come up with their own solution though.

GGG knows that each expansion they do can and will alienate and piss off a set of players, because they are large changes to the game. They accept that people will quit or new players might not like it, so mentioning these as factors, is irrelevant, every change GGG does one way or another can lead to old players quitting or new ones not liking it.

The arguement that players quit is not a valid consideration when you are talking about making a change, because either way the change goes players might quit, therefore cancelling out that as a reason to make the change.

The reason to change must come from other reasons, otherwise its just trading 1 set of upset players for another, a prime example would be look at all my fancy supporter titles, then look at most of the people here saying they quit or are dislike the lab. Mine seems to outweigh yours. Players that quit are likely also not players that support, otherwise instead of quitting they would be suggesting legitimate ways to make the lab better, not just throw it out in the trash because the playstyle doesn't fit their desires.

Thats the difference between shit players and good players, ones that have the foresight to want to make the game better, without sacrificing on the design of the game.

But its pointless to really discuss this with you, because you think players quitting is a valid reason why the game should be changed. Let them quit, they will likely find something else to be dissatisfied with anyway.

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dickhole_mcghee wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

Since we are answering hypothetical questions, let me ask this:

If next patch GGG said fuck it, we first person shooter now like borderlands (which the wiki states as an arpg) and a thread like this were created. Would the same people come here and say "Yea sure, i mean you had to aim with the mouse before so there is not much difference in the gameplay, but the lore, don't touch the lore or i'll cut you!"?

PYROKAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

might be one response




No but srsly wtf is a "borderlands"? Again I have no idea about the nerd shit you people talk about, with your Grim Diablo Part 6 : The Torchlightening and so forth. I play the path of the exiled persons.

That's fine, i don't expect you to have any knowledge of anything.

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Turtledove wrote:

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dickhole_mcghee wrote:

How on earth do you people come to the conclusion that he or me or whoever needs to find a reason it should not change? That's all sorts of fallaciously absurd. The onus is on you to make a compelling argument why it should change.

People saying they don't like trap game play. People saying that they create fewer new characters because they are avoiding content that they don't like playing. People quitting is the reason it needs to change. You don't need to care about these kind of things but GGG should care and I believe they do care.

See, that's fine. It's basically saying you people are the lowest common denominator, and that GGG should cater to the lowest common denominator. I nominate a thread title change. It bypasses the argument part of the argument and simply says, if a sizable amount of people don't like it then it should be changed, no questions asked. Again, that's fine, but it would make the OP read slightly different and the first half of this thread slightly different.

Also,

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Turtledove wrote:

I never said you don't understand the English language.

...

*cough*

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Turtledove wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

I think dick's first language isn't english. That's fine, it isn't mine either. Here are some other words that can be used instead of that one.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gate+synonyms

Hope it helped. :)

Sorry for getting off topic. You might be right but, I think the main problem is that dick likes to argue using a question and answer technique. That can work great in a one-on-one verbal conversation. In written especially in a forum format like this, it doesn't work. What is needed is for the person to instead present the argument in a fully complete form and then the discussion can go on from there.

Come on now.

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Pyrokar wrote:

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dickhole_mcghee wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

Since we are answering hypothetical questions, let me ask this:

If next patch GGG said fuck it, we first person shooter now like borderlands (which the wiki states as an arpg) and a thread like this were created. Would the same people come here and say "Yea sure, i mean you had to aim with the mouse before so there is not much difference in the gameplay, but the lore, don't touch the lore or i'll cut you!"?

PYROKAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

might be one response




No but srsly wtf is a "borderlands"? Again I have no idea about the nerd shit you people talk about, with your Grim Diablo Part 6 : The Torchlightening and so forth. I play the path of the exiled persons.

That's fine, i don't expect you to have any knowledge of anything.