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Fruz wrote:
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Turtledove wrote:
Wrong again, Fruz. Just about any boss that or area would do the same thing. Since you are still clueless I'll waste a bit more of my time responding to you. What makes lab different from the rest of PoE is the boring not fun trap gauntlets. Set free the ascendancy points (or rework the lab) is not complaining about bosses being a gating factor to earning rewards in the game. DUH
You really cannot stop resorting to anything else than bad faith at this point, I guess that's the only thing you can do wihtout actual argument ?
Tell me one other boss where you choose the final setup ( buffs ) and where you cannot die neither tp without having to start over.
I won't wait, because you can't : there isn't any.
The only other bosses where you cannot get in and out are the abyss bosses, and they are not gating anything regarding progression ( couple of particular/niche uniques at best ), neither are they modulable regarding difficulty and reward ( you can find them in different levels/sets of mods like map bosses, but that is a different thing ).
I don't care if you want to categorize x or y part of the lab, Izaro is part of the lab, period.
It is gating character progression, and it is significantly more difficult than the rest of the progression gating content, partly ( if not mostly, relatively to player who have a minimum of reflexes, understanding of basic movement mechanics and game mechanics of course ) because of Izaro.
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Gackuto wrote:
Simply don't die, do lab in the right moment. Ascendancies are rewards for people that passes the true test, when your character is balanced enough to deserve it.
Yes, Labyrinth need some changes but, it's one of the best things in the game. You have to earn your ascendancy, that's it.
Some people forget this game is not an easy game. You can't pay for win, you can't skip hard work.
I'm quoting again the part that this is about, that you tried quite hard to completely discredit by beating strawmen.
He was mentioning the lab, not the traps, and you need to go through all of it (including Izaro) to get awarded the ascendancy points, period.
Izaro is a good boss. That is not what the complaint is. Since you refuse to understand this let me try saying it again. Izaro is not the complaint here.
Like I've been saying to your irrelevant posts today. This thread is not about Izaro.
Go ahead and flail all you want. Each boss is unique. It is not impressive or important that you can point out that something that makes Izaro unique. It just further demonstrates your pedantic nature because that is irrelevant.
What makes lab different is the the trap gauntlets. I'm sorry that you misunderstood that was what was being discussed. I already told you earlier that for pedantic fellows like you I should have said "except Izaro". Since that was not good enough I can only say again.
Trap gauntlets are boring and not fun. The ascendancy points should be set free (or rework the lab). For the pedantic fellows out there the previous sentence to this sentence is referring to trap gauntlets not Izaro.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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Posted byTurtledove#4014on Aug 12, 2019, 5:07:55 AM
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I used to like the Izaro fight. Now he's just Izaro the Boring.
He's very easy to read. It's easy to avoid his most damaging attacks*. Plus, he's relatively easy to kill compared to many other bosses because he has no immunity phases. The only real challenge is positioning and movement so you stay out of the line of fire for traps and so your character doesn't get teleported somewhere. That's it, and those challenges are manageable.
Lab isn't difficult. It's just boring gameplay with ridiculous lore that doesn't fit the rest of the game.
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* For Izaro's more damaging attacks just move behind him and hit him while he winds up for half of eternity before finally attacking. That works 100% of the time. For his less damaging attacks just take a gulp out of a life flask when you need one.
Now that prestige classes will finally leave lab in 4.0, will GGG get it right this time or will they find new ways to repeat old mistakes?
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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:
I used to like the Izaro fight. Now he's just Izaro the Boring.
He's very easy to read. It's easy to avoid his most damaging attacks*. Plus, he's relatively easy to kill compared to many other bosses because he has no immunity phases. The only real challenge is positioning and movement so you stay out of the line of fire for traps and so your character doesn't get teleported somewhere. That's it, and those challenges are manageable.
Lab isn't difficult. It's just boring gameplay with ridiculous lore that doesn't fit the rest of the game.
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* For Izaro's more damaging attacks just move behind him and hit him while he winds up for half of eternity before finally attacking. That works 100% of the time. For his less damaging attacks just take a gulp out of a life flask when you need one.
I agree that Izaro was a good boss fight. Although I hated him because he was the primary gating factor getting out of Labyrinth, earning the points, and being done with the boring horrible lab content. (For the pedantic fellows out there the previous sentence is referring to trap gauntlets.)
I like the idea of being able to buff him for greater rewards although I rarely do that on purpose because my overriding goal is being done with the lab. If Izaro weren't in the lab he would have been a fun boss to learn and farm. (For the extreme pedants out there, lab in this paragraph also refers to trap gauntlets not Izaro.)
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired! Last edited by Turtledove#4014 on Aug 12, 2019, 4:14:08 PM
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Posted byTurtledove#4014on Aug 12, 2019, 3:43:43 PM
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vio wrote:
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Fruz wrote:
Unfortunately, as I just adressed it in this post and the previous post, some posters are completely irrational and will do anything to discredit others and the content they don't lab, regardless of any logic or facts, or so it seems.
we can't win this cause the other side has no real argument.
Actually you speak the exact truth. There is no argument, just an opinion that the lab trap gauntlets are boring not fun. Some people just can't handle other people having an opinion that differs from their own especially when they're white knighting.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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Posted byTurtledove#4014on Aug 12, 2019, 4:20:04 PM
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Turtledove wrote:
Izaro is a good boss. That is not what the complaint is. Since you refuse to understand this let me try saying it again. Izaro is not the complaint here.
No, you don't get it, you refuse to understand.
The original quotes is of something who was saying that labyinth is a test and puts builds to the test, that's all there is to it.
THIS includes IZARO as it's about the lab, anything else you say is irrelevant, I don't care, and I guess most people don't either, it's not relevant.
period.
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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:
* For Izaro's more damaging attacks just move behind him and hit him while he winds up for half of eternity before finally attacking. That works 100% of the time. For his less damaging attacks just take a gulp out of a life flask when you need one.
Of course you don't need to understand rocket science to kill Izaro, it's quite straigthforward, but it's pretty much one ( if not the ) most complex fight of the whole game, and one that you cannot zerg, making it a much 'harder' test than other story bosses ( relatively speaking of course ).
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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Posted byFruz#6137on Aug 12, 2019, 8:28:09 PM
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Fruz wrote:
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Turtledove wrote:
Izaro is a good boss. That is not what the complaint is. Since you refuse to understand this let me try saying it again. Izaro is not the complaint here.
No, you don't get it, you refuse to understand.
The original quotes is of something who was saying that labyinth is a test and puts builds to the test, that's all there is to it.
THIS includes IZARO as it's about the lab, anything else you say is irrelevant, I don't care, and I guess most people don't either, it's not relevant.
period.
What a silly statement. Here was my first response to your obnoxious ranting.
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Turtledove wrote:
The stuff about trap gauntlets being some special test for a build being mobile is picky pedantic nonsense. Izaro is a regular boss. A boss is the game "tests" builds. Since there is really nothing extra special about Izaro my previous statement stands with the clarification " except Izaro". Which would be assumed by less pedantic fellows.
Take note of the except Izaro above. So why do you continue to lie that I don't understand that Izaro is in lab. I admitted that in my first response.
Sorry you don't understand I hope that this helps you to better accept the reality of the situation. Perhaps it might help if you took a deep breath and actually read what was written before trying to respond?
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired! Last edited by Turtledove#4014 on Aug 12, 2019, 9:43:46 PM
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Posted byTurtledove#4014on Aug 12, 2019, 9:42:21 PM
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How can you not be ashamed there, seriously ?
HOW ?
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Turtledove wrote:
Silly, Labyrinth has nothing to do with balance or PoE game play skill. Like the earlier post says, a life build with high life regen makes lab trivial then compare that to an evasion vaal pact build. What a strange statement you make?
That was literally your answer to his post, and it was just a bunch of nonsense,
You got called out on it and you didn't like, well time to blame yourself.
That underlined part is utter nonsense, that's what I was pointing out, period.
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Turtledove wrote:
Since there is really nothing extra special about Izaro my previous statement stands with the clarification "except Izaro"
Your whole premise is wrong, I already just addressed this, YES Izaro is different from most of the bosses in the game, you are merely just trying to beat a strawman because you have nothing else.
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Fruz wrote:
You really cannot stop resorting to anything else than bad faith at this point, I guess that's the only thing you can do wihtout actual argument ?
Tell me one other boss where you choose the final setup ( buffs ) and where you cannot die neither tp without having to start over.
I won't wait, because you can't : there isn't any.
The only other bosses where you cannot get in and out are the abyss bosses, and they are not gating anything regarding progression ( couple of particular/niche uniques at best ), neither are they modulable regarding difficulty and reward ( you can find them in different levels/sets of mods like map bosses, but that is a different thing ).
I don't care if you want to categorize x or y part of the lab, Izaro is part of the lab, period.
It is gating character progression, and it is significantly more difficult than the rest of the progression gating content, partly ( if not mostly, relatively to player who have a minimum of reflexes, understanding of basic movement mechanics and game mechanics of course ) because of Izaro.
I should have added you to my ignore list a long time ago, you're doing nothing but resorting to bad faith, beating strawmen and going full circle when everything gets addressed.
Now I won't be seeing any of that nonsense, I will do something better with my time. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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Posted byFruz#6137on Aug 12, 2019, 9:55:45 PM
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Fruz wrote:
How can you not be ashamed there, seriously ?
HOW ?
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Turtledove wrote:
Silly, Labyrinth has nothing to do with balance or PoE game play skill. Like the earlier post says, a life build with high life regen makes lab trivial then compare that to an evasion vaal pact build. What a strange statement you make?
That was literally your answer to his post, and it was just a bunch of nonsense,
You got called out on it and you didn't like, well time to blame yourself.
That underlined part is utter nonsense, that's what I was pointing out, period.
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Turtledove wrote:
Since there is really nothing extra special about Izaro my previous statement stands with the clarification "except Izaro"
Your whole premise is wrong, I already just addressed this, YES Izaro is different from most of the bosses in the game, you are merely just trying to beat a strawman because you have nothing else.
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Fruz wrote:
You really cannot stop resorting to anything else than bad faith at this point, I guess that's the only thing you can do wihtout actual argument ?
Tell me one other boss where you choose the final setup ( buffs ) and where you cannot die neither tp without having to start over.
I won't wait, because you can't : there isn't any.
The only other bosses where you cannot get in and out are the abyss bosses, and they are not gating anything regarding progression ( couple of particular/niche uniques at best ), neither are they modulable regarding difficulty and reward ( you can find them in different levels/sets of mods like map bosses, but that is a different thing ).
I don't care if you want to categorize x or y part of the lab, Izaro is part of the lab, period.
It is gating character progression, and it is significantly more difficult than the rest of the progression gating content, partly ( if not mostly, relatively to player who have a minimum of reflexes, understanding of basic movement mechanics and game mechanics of course ) because of Izaro.
I should have added you to my ignore list a long time ago, you're doing nothing but resorting to bad faith, beating strawmen and going full circle when everything gets addressed.
Now I won't be seeing any of that nonsense, I will do something better with my time.
What a bunch of ranting nonsense. We were explicitly discussing trap gauntlets. Go back and read his post.
You keep talking about Izaro which is completely irrelevant. We weren't discussing Izaro except as the primary gate blocking access to the points.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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Posted byTurtledove#4014on Aug 12, 2019, 11:18:21 PM
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Here was my previous post that I reference when I stated it stands with the clarification of "except Izaro" being added in.
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Silly, Labyrinth has nothing to do with balance or PoE game play skill, except Izaro. Like the earlier post says, a life build with high life regen makes lab trivial then compare that to an evasion vaal pact build. What a strange statement you make?
Labyrinth isn't hard it is just boring crap that has it's own unique game play compared to the rest of PoE. If you like it fine. It is reasonable that a lot people that like PoE game play think this lab game play is crap nonsense. If you can't wrap your head around that then sorry for you.
Now please tuck your tail between your legs and slink away.
edit: Note in the quote, the discussion about lab game play being different from the rest PoE game play. Now after you digest that bit of information then understand that I could only be referring to trap gauntlets not Izaro because Izaro is regular PoE game play.
Note in the quote, the discussion about life regen making lab trivial especially when compared to vaal pact evasion build. Now after you digest that bit of information then understand that I could only be referring to trap gauntlets not Izaro because it makes no sense in the context of the Izaro encounter. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired! Last edited by Turtledove#4014 on Aug 13, 2019, 1:10:51 AM
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Posted byTurtledove#4014on Aug 12, 2019, 11:22:18 PM
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Turtledove wrote:
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vio wrote:
we can't win this cause the other side has no real argument.
Actually you speak the exact truth. There is no argument, just an opinion that xxx are boring not fun.
what i find unfair, is, that the original ascendancy complaints had real arguments like certain builds couldn't do it, some even had to respec to do lab and traps hit like a truck, ggg fixed these issues and now the lab got boring cause players just speed run it.
the frustration of seeing your char die after you spent like 10 minutes running the areas has been game's appeal and what made it different to other games. dps didn't help but, now i don't even have to stop and wait for the lava to go away anymore.
lab got boring thanks to your effort and now you just use that as a argument against it.
well played
age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
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Posted byvio#1992on Aug 13, 2019, 5:30:33 AMAlpha Member
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