SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Pyrokar wrote:

Why are you so mad? I am just trying to help you since you seemed confused about the meaning of a word... :(

Also,

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Pyrokar wrote:

Hey dick, if you want to argue about the word gate or about the wiki definition of an arpg, do it in another thread as i believe it to be offtopic on this one. If it isn't, then plz elaborate.

Nothing new on that front huh?

Considering that the people he's talking to constantly fall back on the "it's a different genre" argument to justify their agenda, it's my opinion that it's very much on-topic.

It's not a shocker that they don't want to go that route in the discussion.

Ah, ok. So the argument is that person X is wrong in feeling that the lab has different gameplay than previous versions of PoE, because he doesn't use the word gate correctly or has a weird definition of an arpg?



Let's try your method of debating:



Now try and guess what my point is.

I wonder what you guys are talking about here, still. Lab is here to stay, and you won't force people to like Lab. I'd stop trying to convince them that they are somehow wrong. EVEN if they are, can't we just try to reach an actually fucking agreement, instead of beating that deadeadeadeadeadeadeadeadeadeadeadeadeadeadead [...] deadeadeadeadeadedeadead horse?
All you have said, have been said million times - mixing genres is ok, some people don't like it.
Great - can we move on?

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

If there is one good thing about your guys' continuing QQ about the lab, it is this. No game should last forever; it is in a project's death that it is iterated upon and has the chance to be reborn, better than ever.

Perhaps Path of Exile's time has come. Perhaps it is beyond saving. Perhaps it must be allowed to die. If you lot wish to be the executioners, then by all means, don't let me stop you.

Your thinking is backwards. Those who post "QQ about the Lab," as you choose to characterize them, are trying to fix what they see as a terrible situation in a game they love. I.e., they want to CONTINUE playing. Otherwise why would they be complaining? They would just leave.

Any mass exodus of the game will be by these players who are not interested in playing a game they no longer find fun, yes. And they are the "executioners" of that game? How exactly do you consider them responsible for the game's death?

Well, I've just left. And partially because of the Lab, even; I like it, but frankly there was much more important stuff to do. Every expansion is about getting even more stuff, rather than cleaning house. It's a house which desperately needs cleaning. It's getting to the point where the situation feels unsalvageable.

The more I think about it the more I question the Lab's development time to benefit ratio. (Some things like long Normal/Cruel Lab and repeated Trials are just stupid.)

Make no mistake though: I love Path of Exile as a potential franchise. I'm just done with it as a title. I think the death of the latter is the best way to ensure the health of the former.

Just to state my personal opinion about the whole "genre" issue, I believe the trap mechanics don't belong in PoE.

In my view, the core of any hack-n-slash game is about improving your character. You spend your time leveling and farming gear. So that your character improves. So that you can level and farm gear even faster, and safer. Rinse and repeat.

Against traps, improving my character is irrelevant. Gaining more resistances is useless, gaining more armor, evasion, block, is useless. Gaining more HP is not only useless, it even gimps my character since life flasks will be less effective.
That's what is wrong and contrary to the genre, for me.

I remember Chris saying that one of the goals for the labyrinth was to give Softcore players a little taste of Hardcore gameplay.
Well it certainly does, and I'm sure that's one of the reasons many SC players like it.

Now what about a HC player ? Upon entering the labyrinth, I don't risk losing the 10 or 15 minutes needed to run it, I risk losing everything, the dozens of hours I spent leveling, as well as all my gear, for which I farmed and traded for dozens of hours too.

And having little to no control, character build-wise, on the amount of damage I'll be taking in the lab, risking it all, is just wrong and pretty depressing.

Also, like this person said :

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

The other issue that might end up declining is the level of trust on the part of players that they know what kind of game they're supporting, given how surprisingly unpleasant Labyrinth has proved to be for so many players.

I feel like my dreams of the perfect hack-n-slash are no longer aligned with GGG's. They broke what I consider a rule of the genre. And that's a heavy blow for me after 4 years of love.
Now I'm in fear of what the future is gonna bring in PoE with such a precedent.
Maybe unmitigable/unavoidable damage anywhere else in the game ? Maybe falling off ledges and dying when you click outside ?
Or maybe some other mini-games like perhaps a card game ? a tower defense ? a FPS ?
Anything goes, apparently.

I hate labyrinth not because it is boring tedious and not fun. I hate the labyrinth because it is boring tedious and not fun content that is stuck into the middle of the game I love to play. If it was truly optional like Atziri then that would be fine. I'm complaining simply because I believe PoE would be a far superior game, for many people, if the trap game play was optional.

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patirce wrote:

Just to state my personal opinion about the whole "genre" issue, I believe the trap mechanics don't belong in PoE.

In my view, the core of any hack-n-slash game is about improving your character. You spend your time leveling and farming gear. So that your character improves. So that you can level and farm gear even faster, and safer. Rinse and repeat.

Against traps, improving my character is irrelevant. Gaining more resistances is useless, gaining more armor, evasion, block, is useless. Gaining more HP is not only useless, it even gimps my character since life flasks will be less effective.
That's what is wrong and contrary to the genre, for me.

Sigh, this has been said a trillion times now, but seems it still haven't got through - yes, I get it, you don't like, and you'd rather not play it, and I'm all for alternative for people like you, but can we please, for love of fucking christ, stop using this argument already?

This is ACTION RPG - not meta-golem-gear-check RPG that some of you want to be. You being able to play your character (which has all these stats you mentioned) is a factor. And in MY personal opinion, it should be far more bigger factor, than you shoving all those stats up your characters ass. In fact, it already is. And somehow that doesn't rustle your jimmies? :P

So again - I get it, you don't like it, and it is a fair point. Following statements are pretty silly, tho. :P

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patirce wrote:

Now I'm in fear of what the future is gonna bring in PoE with such a precedent.
Maybe unmitigable/unavoidable damage anywhere else in the game ? Maybe falling off ledges and dying when you click outside ?
Or maybe some other mini-games like perhaps a card game ? a tower defense ? a FPS ?
Anything goes, apparently.

I feel like I would be nauseous pretty quickly playing CoC Discharge in FPS mode! XD


I can't get with this "end-of-the-world" mentality about the Lab. Is it annoying? To some people yes. Is it the complete end of the world doing something 3 times? I don't think so.

Personally I hope they add traps as a map mod with HUGE IIQ (to make up for map clear speed)....but hey that's just me.

I don't think that because GGG added traps to this game that it opens the doors for some wild mini-games. Although if it did..what's the harm? It's a game and games change over time.

Arguably it's not the best business model to give you players one play style for years and then "surprise" them with new mechanics like the lab...but then again...If the game never changed outside of X# of new skills and a gimmick league mechanic, how would this game survive the extended lifespan that GGG has planned for it?

I'm okay with Lab points be inside or outside of the lab...to me it doesn't really matter that much as I think people should enjoy the game how they want...I also, however, don't think that it is the end of the world if they keep it like it is now.

We'll adapt eventually...we always do...even if we complain along the way.

Then the game will change, and its playerbase with it, I suppose.