SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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raics wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

It's the same with the video game industry. If it wasn't for Mario it probably wouldn't be half as big as it is now. That doesn't mean you should put Mario in your game or eat poop for that matter...

I think it was bound to happen sooner or later, there was a ton of untapped potential in interactive entertainment. It's like the great discoveries, they're so great we couldn't have possibly missed them, some just did it a bit early.

Shine boldly, so that all may find you when the night falls.

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Xavathos wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

It's the same with the video game industry. If it wasn't for Mario it probably wouldn't be half as big as it is now. That doesn't mean you should put Mario in your game or eat poop for that matter...

I think it was bound to happen sooner or later, there was a ton of untapped potential in interactive entertainment. It's like the great discoveries, they're so great we couldn't have possibly missed them, some just did it a bit early.

Shine boldly, so that all may find you when the night falls.

Thank you Xavathos...

But our princess is in another castle!

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Pyrokar wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Shine boldly, so that all may find you when the night falls.

Thank you Xavathos...

But our princess is in another castle!

Belief is the strongest metal of them all.

There's a pinned post in the feedback forum for the beta devoted to reactions from beta participants to changes in lab. A nifty idea was suggested by one poster, which is to remove ascendancies from lab and to convert uber lab into an end game map.

To develop the idea a bit further, the "cheese" to lure in players for uber lab could be that it's a longer map, leading to more possibilities of map (and other) drops. If a version of lab in act 8-ish offered enchants and other diversions, then that could be it for lab for the game.

This idea still leaves a need to work out how to ascend. But, at least this idea would make lab truly optional for the first time since its inclusion in the game. And, those who like lab in its current state would still have access to it.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

So, yes balance changes can be reasonably considered to be design bugs.

No.

A bug is an unexpected outcome from the programming team.
Balance changes do not fall in this category at all, period.

Now, you are either ridiculously showing your bad faith, or that previous "argumentum ad verecundiam" was nothing but thin air.
In both cases, there seem to be an honesty issue here.

No point in arguing with him about that. I mean his BFF thinks that supporter pack purchases are donations.

Bugs are also design failures that are working as intended. This is a fact.

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Well if you don't poop, you die. That doesn't mean you should eat poop.

It's the same with the video game industry. If it wasn't for Mario it probably wouldn't be half as big as it is now. That doesn't mean you should put Mario in your game or eat poop for that matter...

I hear the next big feature is that your exile will get on a horse and the mobs will chase you and you will need to drop oil slicks (horse poop) to make them keep falling back.

If they catch you, you lose 1 health. You have 3 health during this race.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

There's a pinned post in the feedback forum for the beta devoted to reactions from beta participants to changes in lab. A nifty idea was suggested by one poster, which is to remove ascendancies from lab and to convert uber lab into an end game map.

Yeah, we heard that one many times in many forms, unless devs hide some sort of lab replacement in the attic it creates a bigger problem than it solves.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

There's a pinned post in the feedback forum for the beta devoted to reactions from beta participants to changes in lab. A nifty idea was suggested by one poster, which is to remove ascendancies from lab and to convert uber lab into an end game map.

To develop the idea a bit further, the "cheese" to lure in players for uber lab could be that it's a longer map, leading to more possibilities of map (and other) drops. If a version of lab in act 8-ish offered enchants and other diversions, then that could be it for lab for the game.

This idea still leaves a need to work out how to ascend. But, at least this idea would make lab truly optional for the first time since its inclusion in the game. And, those who like lab in its current state would still have access to it.

Remove from lab and added where? This scenario is getting more and more unlikely by the way, they might change the lab itself (butcher it and water it down like they already did without addressing any real issue) but re-allocating the points is rather hard at this point. Though hope dies last as always.


From this thread :

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Regulator wrote:

20/03/2016

Labyrinth Map

My opinion on the labyrinth and the gating of the AC points behind it is probably well known by now (if not see here), but here is a suggestion that im sure will please a lot of labyrinth lovers. Im not sure if it should be a unique or simple, probably unique to avoid really stupid combinations of mods, but a map with random layout, and random izaro stages every time would be nice. Since it is a map everyone would have 6chances, portals could be limited not to open inside izaro fights (neither on the plaza before), and offource no AC points. The map could be a drop from merci Izaro (like 50-75% chance he drops it), a possible orb of chance result on a chateau map (t10 lvl77), or a very rare drop from normal maps. The end reward except the treasure chests would be a higher lvl and more powerful enchantments Implemented. Endgame Labyrinth is basically that but without the extra portals.

For an avid lab hater i seem to be pretty impartial and open minded, who knew....

Also an appeal to people with brains, please try not to be baited to irrelevant, random and senseless arguments about semantics or offtopic matters, you add to the derailing of the thread even if you don't understand it. You are being dragged to a lower/idiotic level/form of discussion/argument that you are bound to loose simply cause the other side has years of experience in those kind of low-quality conversations.

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Regulator wrote:

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

<stuff>

Remove from lab and added where? This scenario is getting more and more unlikely by the way, they might change the lab itself (butcher it and water it down like they already did without addressing any real issue) but re-allocating the points is rather hard at this point. Though hope dies last as always.

Even if the requests from numerous players for an alternative to lab to ascend only lead to more butchering and further watering down of lab, then it will still have been a worthwhile effort.

But, if you haven't checked out the beta feedback thread about lab, you might want to do that. Many are just factually answering the questions posed, which is pretty common for surveys of any kind. But, a large percentage are offering "I like lab" or "Not so much" commentary, above and beyond direct and factual replies to directly asked questions. The ratio of people saying "I like lab" versus those saying the opposite is heavily lopsided against lab.

The general sentiment against lab seems both broadly felt and quite intense, overall.

Alternatives to lab for ascending can come in pretty much any flavor that make sense for an ARPG. There are plenty of reasonable choices.

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Regulator wrote:

From this thread :

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Regulator wrote:

20/03/2016

Labyrinth Map

My opinion on the labyrinth and the gating of the AC points behind it is probably well known by now (if not see here), but here is a suggestion that im sure will please a lot of labyrinth lovers. Im not sure if it should be a unique or simple, probably unique to avoid really stupid combinations of mods, but a map with random layout, and random izaro stages every time would be nice. Since it is a map everyone would have 6chances, portals could be limited not to open inside izaro fights (neither on the plaza before), and offource no AC points. The map could be a drop from merci Izaro (like 50-75% chance he drops it), a possible orb of chance result on a chateau map (t10 lvl77), or a very rare drop from normal maps. The end reward except the treasure chests would be a higher lvl and more powerful enchantments Implemented. Endgame Labyrinth is basically that but without the extra portals.

This looks fine.

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But, if you haven't checked out the beta feedback thread about lab, you might want to do that. Many are just factually answering the questions posed, which is pretty common for surveys of any kind. But, a large percentage are offering "I like lab" or "Not so much" commentary, above and beyond direct and factual replies to directly asked questions. The ratio of people saying "I like lab" versus those saying the opposite is heavily lopsided against lab.

You mean the ratio of people on feedback and suggestions, where people mostly go to complain is skewed in the direction of disliking something? No fucking way thats mind blowing information.

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Alternatives to lab for ascending can come in pretty much any flavor that make sense for an ARPG. There are plenty of reasonable choices.

Suchas?


The only acceptable alternative is keeping the lab the only way to get the points. There was a pitch a while ago about giving people the option to play a more puzzle based one with traps in for flavor, but not "gauntlets", the new activation device sort of supports the idea of creating this sort of scenario as well.

Regardless of what you think, the lab does fit an ARPG game. Not everything should be purely overgearing or overleveling content, for that reason along I feel like the lab is an important piece of content to the game and one everyone should experience.

I can understand if some people dislike it, I'm fine with feedback, but what is going on in this thread isn't feedback, its a massive fucking circle jerk with no direction and barely any moderation. Almost everyone that has posted in this thread has replied with some pretty petty shit, because the topic is so "decisive", but GGG has spoken about this in the past and they aren't opposed to divisive content and the flame war here isn't going to convince GGG to change it either.