SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Phrazz wrote:

It's not about the "difficulty" and if it's "needed" from a balance perspective, but has more to do with feeling as if your choices - in an RPG - matters.

I don't really see anything out of the ordinary there in regards to choices. Every defense type should have a blind spot, armor works on all physical hits and nothing else, evasion works only on attacks but element doesn't matter, block/dodge doesn't work on secondary and dot.
I think ES (and MoM in beta) are much worse offenders of choice than lab, we shouldn't have a type of defense that works on everything.

Anyway, if GGG did all those things from the list, would you consider the lab passable, maybe even good content? Or would it still be trash?

Just add a freaking PvE arena :D

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raics wrote:

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I think ES (and MoM in beta) are much worse offenders of choice than lab, we shouldn't have a type of defense that works on everything...

Chaos?

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raics wrote:

Anyway, if GGG did all those things from the list, would you consider the lab passable, maybe even good content? Or would it still be trash?

I would still mislike it. Because my distaste goes far into the design of the whole thing, the theme itself, the tileset and so on. But those are all subjective, my taste. So it wouldn't be fair for me to advocate for changes.

But if it became fair, fair for all classes, all main defenses and stats, it wouldn't limit build diversity as much as it does. It would give you more freedom, and your choices would be indirectly rewarded in form them mattering.

Would I run it more than I needed to? No. I play to have fun. I don't find the lab fun. So I wouldn't. But again, that's subjective.

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Turtledove wrote:

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raics wrote:

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I think ES (and MoM in beta) are much worse offenders of choice than lab, we shouldn't have a type of defense that works on everything...

Chaos?

Sure, it doesn't protect you from it, but if you play ES you're either immune to it or prevent chaos bypass. I suppose we could say that picking ES as your main defense will also indirectly make you immune to stun and freeze.

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Phrazz wrote:

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raics wrote:

Anyway, if GGG did all those things from the list, would you consider the lab passable, maybe even good content? Or would it still be trash?

I would still mislike it. Because my distaste goes far into the design of the whole thing, the theme itself, the tileset and so on. But those are all subjective, my taste. So it wouldn't be fair for me to advocate for changes.

Yeah, I expected something like that. If we assume other lab haters would sooner agree with you than not maybe we can't really fault GGG for not busting their asses on small tweaks like that. It would be nice, sure, but it would mean something to those that already like the lab or are ambivalent to it, I don't think it's enough to convert people to another camp en masse, they would have to go the full nine yards for that.

Well, maybe even that wouldn't work, for instance, we know how much flak capcom got for releasing street fighter 5 incomplete. Even if they released a super sf5 or something that has all of the game modes, fixes, fan favorites and is free for all users with the original game I think it would still be a hate magnet.

My suggestion is instead of paying a pc to do it, you pay a flunky npc and get to watch him do it, occasionally he will fall asleep from boredom for 5 minutes just to make it not be so short.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

My suggestion is instead of paying a pc to do it, you pay a flunky npc and get to watch him do it, occasionally he will fall asleep from boredom for 5 minutes just to make it not be so short.

Five minutes is too easy.

You should be forced to watch him not move for 10 minutes, because that's more challenging. And it should be at random intervals, so you have to watch and can't go afk. We need to punish people who want to go afk while playing, and we shouldn't give out the points without a real challenge.

No one will find it boring, because as we all know people don't get bored by an activity unless it takes more than 10 minutes.

And no one will complain, because it's such a small part of your overall PoE experience.

Those who hate this idea obviously need to practice staring at non-moving NPCs more. Get better at it and then come back. And if you haven't done this already then you have no right to criticize the idea. You need to acquire expertise before you can pass judgment.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Zalhan2 wrote:

My suggestion is instead of paying a pc to do it, you pay a flunky npc and get to watch him do it, occasionally he will fall asleep from boredom for 5 minutes just to make it not be so short.

Five minutes is too easy.

You should be forced to watch him not move for 10 minutes, because that's more challenging. And it should be at random intervals, so you have to watch and can't go afk. We need to punish people who want to go afk while playing, and we shouldn't give out the points without a real challenge.

No one will find it boring, because as we all know people don't get bored by an activity unless it takes more than 10 minutes.

And no one will complain, because it's such a small part of your overall PoE experience.

Those who hate this idea obviously need to practice staring at non-moving NPCs more. Get better at it and then come back. And if you haven't done this already then you have no right to criticize the idea. You need to acquire expertise before you can pass judgment.

+1

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Turtledove wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Zalhan2 wrote:

My suggestion is instead of paying a pc to do it, you pay a flunky npc and get to watch him do it, occasionally he will fall asleep from boredom for 5 minutes just to make it not be so short.

Five minutes is too easy.

You should be forced to watch him not move for 10 minutes, because that's more challenging. And it should be at random intervals, so you have to watch and can't go afk. We need to punish people who want to go afk while playing, and we shouldn't give out the points without a real challenge.

No one will find it boring, because as we all know people don't get bored by an activity unless it takes more than 10 minutes.

And no one will complain, because it's such a small part of your overall PoE experience.

Those who hate this idea obviously need to practice staring at non-moving NPCs more. Get better at it and then come back. And if you haven't done this already then you have no right to criticize the idea. You need to acquire expertise before you can pass judgment.

+1

+2

And you wonder why GGG hasn't given this thread any more attention? Look at you guys whining to each other about what people have previous said that goes against your wishes. Grow up and have a real discussion, would you? Then maybe this will get the attention it deserves and something might actually be achieved.