SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

ANd I could link you several definitions of "boring" that didn't relate the term to time spent (as I already have in this discussion). Did you read that? But ok, you will not respect that other people have another definition of the term, even though you know they have. That's fine, I guess. Not very productive, but very well.

I don't know what your goal in this debate is. My goal was to discuss certain changes and/or alternatives, but had to defend my point of views from the very first post, which made my initial goal close to impossible.

And while I don't find the lab hard, I know others do. But hard shouldn't be "unfun". There are LOTS of hard games out there, which makes you struggle to get anywhere, but the struggle itself is fun. The lab fails to do so - for a lot of players.

You write about "no matter what alternative they come up with, people will whine - and it will cost time and resources". Yes, probably. But with an alternative, GGG WOULD reach more players. You could do the lab as much as you want, while people not liking it, could do the other alternative.

But the fact that we play ARPG's to slay monsters, specialize our characters and to make them evolve into something strong remains. To introduce "trap gameplay", better defined as "platform elements" into this mix, is bound to be unpopular amongst a lot of players. That's not why we're here. And when the lab in addition takes a piss on MOST of your choices - in an ARPG environment - makes it even more misplaced.

While I'll respect GGG for trying out something "new", I think they somewhat failed. There isn't much racing competition. You can clearly see that reading the leaderboards. And if the gameplay in there was fun itself, it would have been.

No, after the ascendancy points are received, the lab becomes of of an income mine for min-maxers and traders selling enchantments and carries, looking to earn a lot of money. While that is TOTALLY OK (everyone is different), the game IS bigger than them.

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We're so far on each side of the spectrum when it comes to how we view games, and what games should offer - so it becomes more or less idiotic to keep quoting each other. Changes ARE coming, and there are reasons for it. I just hope it will be for the better.

But I can't justify spending more time on you. A good debate usually seems healthy. You have a way of debating that almost makes me physically ill. Maybe that's your goal, well, congratulations. I'm out.

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Phrazz wrote:

A good debate usually seems healthy. You have a way of debating that almost makes me physically ill. Maybe that's your goal, well, congratulations. I'm out.

I know how that feels...it's a shame it had to come to this.

The underlying point was actually the more important part to be honest.

You disagree with the definition I posted, and therefore with my point : fine, it happens.

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Phrazz wrote:

But hard shouldn't be "unfun".

I agree.
But pleasing many while keeping the game on track isn't anything like easy.

If GGG can find solutions what will actually be good for the game, for the players, and wont be a loss for them, then sure, I'd love seeing those.
But that's not what I've seen here so far to be honest.



And the labyrinth puts more emphasis on positioning, which is already an element of the game.
Many other games ( that I have seen mentioned ) also had traps, and it does not fit your view of what an arpg, so that isn't objective.

In an action role playing game, this does fit.
Not everybody likes it, that's another story, but justifying that traps are "bad" because "it does not fit arpg !!!" is basically a fallacy, it's just wrong.

And what matters isn't arpg or anything, it's PoE, and it includes traps now, not only in the lab.

holy fuck, 574 pages. Go play already

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Fruz wrote:

The underlying point was actually the more important part to be honest.

You disagree with the definition I posted, and therefore with my point : fine, it happens.

"

Phrazz wrote:

But hard shouldn't be "unfun".

I agree.
But pleasing many while keeping the game on track isn't anything like easy.

If GGG can find solutions what will actually be good for the game, for the players, and wont be a loss for them, then sure, I'd love seeing those.
But that's not what I've seen here so far to be honest.



And the labyrinth puts more emphasis on positioning, which is already an element of the game.
Many other games ( that I have seen mentioned ) also had traps, and it does not fit your view of what an arpg, so that isn't objective.

In an action role playing game, this does fit.
Not everybody likes it, that's another story, but justifying that traps are "bad" because "it does not fit arpg !!!" is basically a fallacy, it's just wrong.

And what matters isn't arpg or anything, it's PoE, and it includes traps now, not only in the lab.

Traps have always been part of arpg's. What is not part of any other arpg besides PoE is platformer-jump-here-run-there content. All top notch arpg's are kill-monster-get-loot game play, including PoE. Platformer-jump-here-run-there is not normal arpg game play. It is silly to claim that it is just because traps are part of normal arpg content. A few traps do not equal platformer-jump-here-run-there content. Chris Wilson and GGG have said on multiple occasions that labyrinth is a different kind of content. Ignoring all the irrefutable evidence seems to be a recent theme for you.

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Xavathos wrote:

I know how that feels...it's a shame it had to come to this.

And I think most of us have been both offenders and victims regarding that point in here.

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Phrazz wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

I know how that feels...it's a shame it had to come to this.

And I think most of us have been both offenders and victims regarding that point in here.

Definitely. All of us knowing... love is a battlefield.

"

Xavathos wrote:

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

I know how that feels...it's a shame it had to come to this.

And I think most of us have been both offenders and victims regarding that point in here.

Definitely. All of us knowing... love is a battlefield.

Not really. If we go by definition... What is love?

"

Pyrokar wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

Definitely. All of us knowing... love is a battlefield.

Not really. If we go by definition... What is love?

Baby, don't hurt me, no more.

"

Xavathos wrote:

"

Pyrokar wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

Definitely. All of us knowing... love is a battlefield.

Not really. If we go by definition... What is love?

Baby, don't hurt me, no more.

That's correct. Xavathos wins.