SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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IceDeal wrote:

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e1337donkey wrote:

Of course it wasn't going to change in 3.0. Fixing the lab would take time to do so, judging by the push back of this expansion, they clearly have no time at all to work on the lab. Only to fit it into the 10 acts system.

So you're saying they need to work on the lab while they are not building new content ? We are talking about a F2P game here, they will NEVER stop to work on new content. 3.0 is probably the biggest change they will make to the game in a very long time, if they had to work on the lab it was now or never.

Lab is here to stay as it is, deal with it.

/thread

That was kind of my point, 3.0 is the biggest expansion they have done. Why would they also take the time work on big changes to the lab at the same time. After the dust settles for 3.0, yeah maybe further down they can work on actual lab changes as well as more content. They aren't going to continue releaseing 6 new acts every year.

The lab is here to stay, of course.. I want it to stay, but I want it to improve. I want AC points to remain inside but I want the lab experience to get better. I want it to be even more challenging to get, yet they keep making it easier with every patch now.

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e1337donkey wrote:

The lab is here to stay, of course.. I want it to stay, but I want it to improve. I want AC points to remain inside but I want the lab experience to get better. I want it to be even more challenging to get, yet they keep making it easier with every patch now.

They keep making it easier because people are complaining about the lab being difficult, while at the same time people are complaining that it is too easy.

You can't satisfy both crowds and I'm not entirely sure why GGG cares about people complaining its too hard, considering this game is suppose to or at least originally was designed to be more difficult.

GGG keeps improving the Labyrinth little by little since it was released. This has been required because Labyrinth was very poorly designed and poorly implemented content. It was full of bugs in both design and implementation. This is a plain fact. GGG still has more work to do, which GGG admits that more fixes are coming in 3.0. So you people saying that Labyrinth shouldn't change are not really being objective about it.

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goetzjam wrote:

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e1337donkey wrote:

The lab is here to stay, of course.. I want it to stay, but I want it to improve. I want AC points to remain inside but I want the lab experience to get better. I want it to be even more challenging to get, yet they keep making it easier with every patch now.

They keep making it easier because people are complaining about the lab being difficult, while at the same time people are complaining that it is too easy.

You can't satisfy both crowds and I'm not entirely sure why GGG cares about people complaining its too hard, considering this game is suppose to or at least originally was designed to be more difficult.

Most people are having issues with izaro and that is still a 3 stage fight? Also, no traps removed from gauntlets so if "bad mario" players can't learn the layout, they'll still be punished for it. Although they will have to repeat a slightly shorter version of the lab in normal. How is that easier?

They are not making the lab easier because people complained about difficulty. They are either making it shorter because they see in their almighty stats that new players find it too long and quit midway in the lab without dying or they are trying to leverage some time from the labyrinth complainers and are saying they should sit tight, as they acknowledge the issue and will fix it in later expansions.

Or they are trolling us. That is very likely as well, sadly...

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goetzjam wrote:

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e1337donkey wrote:

The lab is here to stay, of course.. I want it to stay, but I want it to improve. I want AC points to remain inside but I want the lab experience to get better. I want it to be even more challenging to get, yet they keep making it easier with every patch now.

They keep making it easier because people are complaining about the lab being difficult, while at the same time people are complaining that it is too easy.

You can't satisfy both crowds and I'm not entirely sure why GGG cares about people complaining its too hard, considering this game is suppose to or at least originally was designed to be more difficult.

This isn't the argument and you know it.

No one here is complaining that the lab is "too hard". That is a complete straw man argument.

The current round of Labyrinth changes are simply part of the 10 act expansion and removal of difficulties. They had to change the access method regardless of any complaints or suggestions (they actually improved it slightly, by finally giving people a place to check their map-trial completion status, not just the campaign trials).

They knew many people didn't like trials (almost a universal complaint, even from lab-lovers), so that's a safe place to "trim" away one source of complaints about their baby.

Shortening the "normal difficulty" labyrinth sounds like the only compromise toward those who dislike the Labyrinth. It slightly addresses the disconnect issue, since there will be fewer zone changes for the most common disconnects to occur during. It slightly addresses the length of trap gauntlets, and less time is wasted by disconnects or deaths. This might be enough to make the idea of restarting it and "practicing" more viable for those who find it difficult and would benefit from practice.

It doesn't address the design issues that I have with the Labyrinth, and only temporarily bandages other areas. I wasn't expecting anything for the Labyrinth during the roll-out of 3.0, due to the heavy workload of adding all those new acts. It would have been the perfect time to add alternative methods of obtaining ascendancy from new content, but that train has left.

Since they still discuss changes to the Labyrinth at meetings, I look forward to providing more feedback for them to consider.

Labyrinth is the Trump of PoE.

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Mythabril wrote:

Labyrinth is the Trump of PoE.

thanks for the laugh!

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Turtledove wrote:

GGG keeps improving the Labyrinth little by little since it was released. This has been required because Labyrinth was very poorly designed and poorly implemented content. It was full of bugs in both design and implementation. This is a plain fact. GGG still has more work to do, which GGG admits that more fixes are coming in 3.0. So you people saying that Labyrinth shouldn't change are not really being objective about it.

The changes to the lab they are doing in 3.0 is really not jack shit when you think about it. You still do the lab 4 times, you still do trials 3 times thru the progression and you still have the same amount of endgame trials.

The only difference is a slight streamline to adjust for the 10 act system, as if we didn't already know they were going to change that slightly.

Making normal and cruel slightly shorter is fine and its not an actual "improvement" to the lab its again just streamlining the game so perhaps people stop trying to get all the points at once, and actually get them when leveling\progressing.

[Removed by Support]

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Zaludoz wrote:

They knew many people didn't like trials (almost a universal complaint, even from lab-lovers), so that's a safe place to "trim" away one source of complaints about their baby.

That's been made crystal clear. Lab is very much a pet mechanic. That, in my opinion, is a mistake to hold onto.

What would be interesting, is if GGG did something Eleon did for their game and held a public survey on that mechanic. Limit voting to accounts created prior to 90 days of the poll.

It would be interesting to see hard numbers on who likes the lab and who does not, and who could care less either way.

It would certainly shut me up if the majority in the survey wanted the lab to stay. I suspect however, that people that dislike the lab are not the minority they are made out to be.