SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

The glaring alt-account trolling is really hurting your cause. Let's be honest, the cause is already dead and buried, not in a small part due to obnoxious and militant approach you choose. You failed to get support even from fence-sitting people, who might conditionally agree on some changes.

No amount of alt-account spamming and imaginary list compilations, will actually change the real in-game statistics that GGG is basing their decisions on. This thread might look long and impressive, but it is mostly filed with radical lab-haters talking to their alt-accounts and a few members of the Loyalist Guard defending the royal palace from the feeble revolutionary attempts. ;)

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Regulator wrote:

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LanPirot wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Plenty of people are farming the lab in HC without dying

So, you are part of the silent majority of HC-uber Lab farmers, ehh?

Naaaahhh, all 10 people defending lab and how its awesome (though always conviniently neglecting to say that its for the lootz only) in this thread are scrubcore players to the very bottom of their heart. Not that it changes anything but it lets you see why they do so fanatically defend it.

• I never cared about the loot in the laby, not even once. Never charged for a carry either. Not everyone who likes it cares about the loot or the potential profit. As hard as it may be for you to believe, some people just plain enjoy the content.
• Funny you're calling Fruz scrubcore, his highest level HC char is ascended. Is yours? Hmmm...
• Because of the comments like you've made here, it's just even more satisfying that you're not getting your way.

Can't respond to any of your other statements, I couldn't bother to read through yet another one of your wall-of-text responses.

Keep up the "good" fight though, it's going so well!

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gibbousmoon wrote:

If you are going to say "Very, very wrong," it helps to actually support that statement.

1) The existence of people farming lab in HC says nothing about the Labyrinth sub-team's perspective or design intentions. It merely shows that it is possible.

2) Nor does saying that the lab is more HC than the "average game content" (I assume you mean traditional PoE gameplay there) contradict what I said in any way.

I happen to agree that it is more similar to HC League content than to SC League content. I also think that it is poorly balanced for a HC League. My best guess at this point is that you do not understand how I (or anyone) could hold those two opinions simultaneously. Do correct me if I am wrong. Otherwise think about that juxtaposition, and I think you will understand my point more easily.

If the lab wasn't being balanced for HC, either HC people would have it too easy ( which I doubt ) compare to SC, or people in HC would avoid going in there ( more than in SC ).
And I have seen nothing so far that would indicate clearly otherwise.

I would be curious to hear how it's more hardcore, but not balanced for hardcore, if you would care to elaborate.

By average game content, I meant it literally.
Most of the content of PoE is less "hardcore" than the lab, but there are areas that are more rippy and dangerous ( I would qualify that as hardcore here ) than the lab ( some very high maps and some unique maps, or Atziri&co ).

By the way, I think that you can add a category : the people that do not want to see the game "progress" through the slippery slope that one could call "casualization" , and that think that an alternative way that could not be trivialized and would not be easier would likely have the same "problems" as the lab on this forum ( which kinda leads back to C I guess at the end ).

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Shovelcut wrote:

Funny you're calling Fruz scrubcore, his highest level HC char is ascended. Is yours? Hmmm...

I ripped like last week tho :'((
But I was running rippy maps because I was curious, so it was kinda meant to happen eventually ( content that I had not reached in SC ).
The thrill was there, but it got the better of me at the end lol.

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Fruz wrote:

I would be curious to hear how it's more hardcore, but not balanced for hardcore, if you would care to elaborate.

To keep it simple, it's more hardcore than softcore because you need to start over if you die, but it isn't HC-friendly content because there are more ways to die than being killed by enemies. The usual complaint with the HC crowd are trap gauntlets you can't plan ahead well enough and I'd personally agree that those shouldn't be a thing, HC is more about calculated risk than going in on blind chance.

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raics wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

I would be curious to hear how it's more hardcore, but not balanced for hardcore, if you would care to elaborate.

To keep it simple, it's more hardcore than softcore because you need to start over if you die, but it isn't HC-friendly content because there are more ways to die than being killed by enemies. The usual complaint with the HC crowd are trap gauntlets you can't plan ahead well enough and I'd personally agree that those shouldn't be a thing, HC is more about calculated risk than going in on blind chance.

Maybe some people are just playing hardcore because they feel like they can facetank everything, and started complaining when GGG put new elements that were putting their characters at risk ( if there is no risk, there is no "hardcore" to me ).
If anything, the lab is what hardcore used to be, and in a hardcore experience here, there need to be risks imho, and I'm glad that GGG decided to add new risks that are not just anti-melee sh*t like volatile, or some retarded not telegraphed high damage spikes.


I do also find some gauntlets too long, but I can understand what GGG tried to do with those, purely based on calculation speed and reflex skills, not just planning anymore.

I think my biggest issue with the lab are the traps. Because they are percentage based or something they ignore ur gear and in a loot based game like this i find that ridiculous.

I dont see why cant traps be set to do dmg based on the zone level so if i dont like the lab i can just pick up my points at a higher level like run first 2 labs before i start mapping or something. U cant really overlevel for uber lab anyway so..

If not that i think the traps need to be destructible or have some kind of a timed switch to disable them for some time..

The izaro fight in general i think is great. I like it its a good boss fight but the last faze with traps i see as a go fuck yourself move from GGG..

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Fruz wrote:

Maybe some people are just playing hardcore because they feel like they can facetank everything, and started complaining when GGG put new elements that were putting their characters at risk ( if there is no risk, there is no "hardcore" to me ).
If anything, the lab is what hardcore used to be, and in a hardcore experience here, there need to be risks imho, and I'm glad that GGG decided to add new risks that are not just anti-melee sh*t like volatile, or some retarded not telegraphed high damage spikes.

You won't hear me say that game balance hasn't been kinda awkward for a long time, which is a polite term for 'fucked up to oblivion and back', but I don't think lab really does all that much about the whole thing, nor that it was created with that specific role in mind.

Though the replies are so many, GGG still manages to do nothing. It's coooool isn't it?
"I'am your father, players."

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Fruz wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

I would be curious to hear how it's more hardcore, but not balanced for hardcore, if you would care to elaborate.

To keep it simple, it's more hardcore than softcore because you need to start over if you die, but it isn't HC-friendly content because there are more ways to die than being killed by enemies. The usual complaint with the HC crowd are trap gauntlets you can't plan ahead well enough and I'd personally agree that those shouldn't be a thing, HC is more about calculated risk than going in on blind chance.

Maybe some people are just playing hardcore because they feel like they can facetank everything, and started complaining when GGG put new elements that were putting their characters at risk ( if there is no risk, there is no "hardcore" to me ).
If anything, the lab is what hardcore used to be, and in a hardcore experience here, there need to be risks imho, and I'm glad that GGG decided to add new risks that are not just anti-melee sh*t like volatile, or some retarded not telegraphed high damage spikes.


I do also find some gauntlets too long, but I can understand what GGG tried to do with those, purely based on calculation speed and reflex skills, not just planning anymore.

Thanks, raics. That more or less covers it.

@Fruz
I don't think that is why most people play hardcore. It's not why you play hardcore, is it?

I will speak personally, but I would not be surprised if other hardcore players agree: The thrill of barely surviving a tough fight with a monster, and the sensation I have when I make a mistake and get killed by monsters due to my own misjudgment or mechanical error, is vastly different from how I feel when I figure out how to bypass a trap gauntlet (yawn) or the sensation I have when a trap gauntlet kills a hardcore character (not that it happens all that often, but lag spikes are indeed a thing).

You don't honestly think the Lab has such a bad rap in HC because all those HC players are SC players in disguise, do you?

There is no thrill anymore when people are just running shaped strand all day ( exaggeration here obviously, but you get the point I'm sure ).
I play hardcore for the thrill, and a bit for the economy ( but that is really minor to me ).
I also find HC much less brainless since one needs to be more careful, choices matter more, actions matter more, I kinda like that.

Some people surely do play for the thrill and that other facet that I just mentioned.
But people that complains that traps ignore defenses and therefore their character could die anytime ? I would guess bragging rights first of all ( not saying that they don't care about thrill / adrenaline at all of course ).
not speaking about players not having a stable connection here, that I can somewhat understand.

And in uber, Izaro can definitely be thrilling, and traps in the arena participate to that.
Trap gauntlets make you focus, which is the exact equivalent of yawning, that is : from a HC perspective.
Having actual big monsters during some trap gauntlets ( and having the gauntlets slightly )



And yes, I do believe that many HC players are there for the bragging rights, or just because they feel obliged to play HC for other reasons ( could be because of friends/guildmates playing HC for example ).
I know, you seem to like to see things the positive way, I'm not exactly like that.