SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Fruz wrote:

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Shredzilly wrote:

Divisive Content is the Nemesis for something that is supposed to be entertaining, if People stop playing a Game because of Divisisive Content and you don´t care about that as a Developer, then either you are bathing in Money, you are not seeing the Game as a Business or you are not capable to create Content that is so good that nobody will complain.

In a perfect Scenario you create a Game everybody likes.

What ?

Do you realize that "liking a game" is a purely subjective thing and that there is literally not a single game that everybody like ?
I'm so fucking glad that PoE is not one of those game that is just aiming at attracting the biggest possible crowd and has decision that will give obstacles, and frustrate players at some points.

That´s why I wrote "In a perfect Scenario you create a Game everybody likes" .

From my personal Experience : People of my Friendlist quit BECAUSE of the Divisisive Content called the Lab.
If you create something that pushes People away from your Game, so they don´t support it anymore, is that a good Sign or a bad Sign?
If you develop a Game, would you rather try to make a Game that keeps Players or one that pushes People away ?

From my Experience GGG is not only with the Lab going in a Direction that pushes People away.
They have become very good at Marketing und producing a Hype about the new Stuff they implement.
But the actual new Stuff is pretty mediocre implemented imho.
Good Ideas, bad Implementation.

Pls take note that I don´t critize the Development because I am salty or want something easy in this Game.
I really appreciate what they have created, I want the Game to be around for as long as it is possible, I want it to become better, that is why I am giving Feedback and participate in this Discussion.

If GGG has a Masterplan and I´m sure they have one, but my Feedback doesn´t fit in, so be it, but at least I have tried.

Cheers

GGG intended from the very start to create a game for hardcore gamer ( that casual gamer can enjoy of course, they just need to handle their expectations for it ), I guess felt that it had started to derail to much to them, and BAM there is the lab.

PoE might have become much bigger than they thought, so when they release some content that require some preparation / thinking ( since now most people just copy paste fotm builds I guess ... ), no wonder some complain.
Now would have those player joined at the start ? ( And were more the targeted original crowd of GGG ) We will never now.
Might be that if the game had been more easy close to the start and before, some people that were looking for a hardcore experience would not have supported, who knows ...


Anyway, good feedback is always welcome, unfortunately, apart from the OP that has been edited many times, most of the good feedback of this thread has been sunk under pages of not really useful content imho.

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Emphasy wrote:

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Chris said it is good to have "Divisive Content" a statement which I strongly disagree with. I rather have content which makes players unite and not fight over it. In the end, we are all players that are clearly very passionate about PoE, we should stand together and not divide into lovers/haters camps.

The Divisive comment was more targettet and the uber lab or getting enchants in the normal one. IE doing it over and over as an alternative to maps. And they want people to find their own endgame thing to do.

Not so. The "divisive" comment was about the labyrinth. From 39:23 in the podcast with Chris Wilson:

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I understand a lot of the community doesn't like the labyrinth. This is the thing that I hear...while the people are vocal who don't like it, is only a small portion of the players. Many are happy to go through it as an interesting thing in the game, many people really hate it. So this to me isn't the end of the world. It's ok to have divisive content in the game. Right, we don't want to water stuff down until everyone's ok with it.

A few sentences later on he adds:

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I get a lot of emails asking for a new method to get ascendancy points that bypasses the labyrinth. Maybe that's something we'll do in the future, right. We're not closed to the idea. But it's not something we'll do in this expansion [Prophecy].

Anyway, Chris is at least acknowledging a bit more that "a lot of the community" and "many people" hate the labyrinth, even if they remain a "vocal small portion". But I think it is still very hard for him to accept how badly forcing people to play through labyrinth has been received, especially after all the work GGG put into it. He also still seems to be casting around for justifications of the labyrinth in the face of the complaints, like it "goes against the clear-speed-meta (when I suspect many of the self-same speed-clear players are the ones who love the lab for its enormous profits).

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Fruz wrote:

GGG intended from the very start to create a game for hardcore gamer ( that casual gamer can enjoy of course, they just need to handle their expectations for it ), I guess felt that it had started to derail to much to them, and BAM there is the lab.

PoE might have become much bigger than they thought, so when they release some content that require some preparation / thinking ( since now most people just copy paste fotm builds I guess ... ), no wonder some complain.
Now would have those player joined at the start ? ( And were more the targeted original crowd of GGG ) We will never now.
Might be that if the game had been more easy close to the start and before, some people that were looking for a hardcore experience would not have supported, who knows ...


Anyway, good feedback is always welcome, unfortunately, apart from the OP that has been edited many times, most of the good feedback of this thread has been sunk under pages of not really useful content imho.

It is true that there is little of value in the hundreds of pages. So what? If you don't like it then don't read it. Guess what mine and your posts are both in those hundreds of pages. What it means it that people love PoE. What it means is that most of the people posting in these pages dislike labyrinth and would rather play PoE to earn ascendancy points, not some trap game play that is boring, irritating, tedious, and not fun to play.

edit: Don't like act4? Too bad, start another thread about that. This thread is supposed to be about Labyrinth.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

GGG intended from the very start to create a game for hardcore gamer ( that casual gamer can enjoy of course, they just need to handle their expectations for it ), I guess felt that it had started to derail to much to them, and BAM there is the lab.

PoE might have become much bigger than they thought, so when they release some content that require some preparation / thinking ( since now most people just copy paste fotm builds I guess ... ), no wonder some complain.
Now would have those player joined at the start ? ( And were more the targeted original crowd of GGG ) We will never now.
Might be that if the game had been more easy close to the start and before, some people that were looking for a hardcore experience would not have supported, who knows ...


Anyway, good feedback is always welcome, unfortunately, apart from the OP that has been edited many times, most of the good feedback of this thread has been sunk under pages of not really useful content imho.

It is true that there is little of value in the hundreds of pages. So what? If you don't like it then don't read it. Guess what mine and your posts are both in those hundreds of pages. What it means it that people love PoE. What it means is that most of the people posting in these pages dislike labyrinth and would rather play PoE to earn ascendancy points, not some trap game play that is boring, irritating, tedious, and not fun to play.

edit: Don't like act4? Too bad, start another thread about that. This thread is supposed to be about Labyrinth.

His point about act 4 is not everyone will like all content or like all changes they make to the game and watering down said content in order to appeal to people complaining isn't ideal either.

Just pointing out this is how POE will be in the future based on Chris Wilsons vision.

Poe will have 1 difficulty with several acts. Having watched State of Exile 53 the upcomming removal of an in game difficulty will not be cruel difficulty. Since Chris did specifically say that. Since there is no way they would remove normal difficulty as normal is to teach players the mechanics of the game, it is now essentially confirmed merciless will be removed in 3.0 if they were to actually remove 1 difficulty. However Chris did say they are more likely to drop to 1 single difficulty than to two difficulties.

I am not exactly sure where the info about a difficulty removal came from, but this is what can be concluded based on what Chris has said.

As such obviously the amount of pointsbyou gain will change in the future. At some point in the future you will get 6 points from doing lab 1 single time, and the last 2 from uber lab. Thats a great improvement for those who dont like lab. Especially when the first lab can be outleveled no matter what the difficulty will be in the future.

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Jgizle wrote:

Just pointing out this is how POE will be in the future based on Chris Wilsons vision.

Poe will have 1 difficulty with several acts. Having watched State of Exile 53 the upcomming removal of an in game difficulty will not be cruel difficulty. Since Chris did specifically say that. Since there is no way they would remove normal difficulty as normal is to teach players the mechanics of the game, it is now essentially confirmed merciless will be removed in 3.0 if they were to actually remove 1 difficulty. However Chris did say they are more likely to drop to 1 single difficulty than to two difficulties.

I am not exactly sure where the info about a difficulty removal came from, but this is what can be concluded based on what Chris has said.

As such obviously the amount of pointsbyou gain will change in the future. At some point in the future you will get 6 points from doing lab 1 single time, and the last 2 from uber lab. Thats a great improvement for those who dont like lab. Especially when the first lab can be outleveled no matter what the difficulty will be in the future.

That is assuming they will reduce the total amount of labs again, which they don't necessarily have to do.

If the game is 10 acts, intended to be played thru in 1 "difficulty" then they can change up the way the trials are, adding trials in act 4-5-6, 7-8-9, with an entrance to those labs in the perspective acts. 3-6-9, leaving uber lab as it is now.

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Jgizle wrote:

Poe will have 1 difficulty with several acts.

According to the Development Manifesto, the core game in PoE 3.0.0 will have two difficulty levels with 5 acts each.

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Shredzilly wrote:

Why should Hardcore be removed for the sake of Divisisive Argumentation?
If you don´t like perma Death you can just avoid it, play the exact same Content but slightliy different in the Outcome of a Death in Standard.
You have a Choice here.

If you want Ascendancy Points you have NO Choice, you have to do the Lab.

The problem with less difficulties is the master quest for certain passive stat increases or an extra skill point. What happens when there is not 3 difficulties. Are the master rewards going to be changed or are they going to completely remove one of them?