SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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goetzjam wrote:

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RagnarokChu wrote:

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Mythabril wrote:

This thread has all the hallmarks of a political campaign. It's not so much about the Labyrinth, but more about bullying GGG into obedience. Making them to amputate a feature they put significant development resources into, only makes the victory greater.

I mean the product is there for people to enjoy, and thus earn money. They should had consulted the community more then randomly slap this massive piece of content and expect their core crowd to randomly like this.

Would been less of a shit storm of that was the case, this is like buying someone a pet for their birthday that they didn't want. Even more so if they don't like cats.

Its more like giving them a goldfish, yes you have to deal with the goldfish but after a while it gets easier and eventually it becomes almost a non factor.

Both are founded by good intentions marred by hindsight. I could also like the goldfish and cat, but it still makes it a horrible birthday present without consulting the person. Content like this isn't on the level of new gems, items, monsters, ect. Since it's expected and always welcomed.

GGG can also add in farming simulator at my hideout were I can grow crops, mine for metals, raise livestock to trade for whatever new content. Doesn't matter how well they think they designed it, it's going to be a shit storm if they randomly slapped it on.

Instead of designing themselves into a corner with lab, it could have built from the ground up with the community. Like was that really more work getting feedback and spoiling it a bit then the shit storm they are getting now.

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Its more like giving them a goldfish, yes you have to deal with the goldfish but after a while it gets easier and eventually it becomes almost a non factor.[/quote]

I don´t find the Lab hard at all, yet I still hate it.

I even made a Char on which I can just run through Traps as if they are nothing just to check if I then like the Lab, that seems to be one of your Arguments - "practice til it gets easy, afterwards you like it" .
I tell you what, with my Lab Runner I like one thing about the Lab - the Reward at the End.
That´s it.
Deadends, Lever here, Lever there, wrong Turn here, wrong turn there is just annoying as Hell.
It´s like a bad map for me ( layoutwise) with better Loot at the End.

Cheers

Yes, free the ascendancy points.

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Shredzilly wrote:

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I don´t find the Lab hard at all, yet I still hate it.

I even made a Char on which I can just run through Traps as if they are nothing just to check if I then like the Lab, that seems to be one of your Arguments - "practice til it gets easy, afterwards you like it" .
I tell you what, with my Lab Runner I like one thing about the Lab - the Reward at the End.
That´s it.
Deadends, Lever here, Lever there, wrong Turn here, wrong turn there is just annoying as Hell.
It´s like a bad map for me ( layoutwise) with better Loot at the End.

Cheers

So basically, you onle want ledge like areas ? is that it ?
If it was really that easy, you would have not felt the need to try a character that avoid traps ... (imho).

PS : I don't think that good lab runners get into deadends and wrong turns all the time by the way, they probably remember the patterns well though.

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Fruz wrote:

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Shredzilly wrote:

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I don´t find the Lab hard at all, yet I still hate it.

I even made a Char on which I can just run through Traps as if they are nothing just to check if I then like the Lab, that seems to be one of your Arguments - "practice til it gets easy, afterwards you like it" .
I tell you what, with my Lab Runner I like one thing about the Lab - the Reward at the End.
That´s it.
Deadends, Lever here, Lever there, wrong Turn here, wrong turn there is just annoying as Hell.
It´s like a bad map for me ( layoutwise) with better Loot at the End.

Cheers

So basically, you onle want ledge like areas ? is that it ?
If it was really that easy, you would have not felt the need to try a character that avoid traps ... (imho).

PS : I don't think that good lab runners get into deadends and wrong turns all the time by the way, they probably remember the patterns well though.

Right, the meta-activity of removing the Labyrinth aspect of the Labyrinth entirely, either by playing it repeatedly on a single day or by going to Reddit every day to cheese it by looking up the layout in advance. Or even simply waiting for a good layout and then running it repeatedly on good-layout days.

Very few Labyrinth runners (fans or otherwise) run the Labyrinth as, you know, an actual Labyrinth.

In case it isn't clear, by "meta-activity" I mean any activity which uses non-in-universe knowledge to exploit an ostensibly in-universe activity.

I find most such meta-activities, including the ones I just described, to fit quite solidly into the category of "activities done only because they are optimal for getting ahead and not because they are fun." That doesn't necessarily mean that they are unfun; this is not a causal relationship. But the correlation between meta-activities and unfun activities is really, really common, and predictably so. There's another thread floating around right now on that exact subject--some pretty interesting debates in there.

Well GGG seems to be ( too much imho, way too much ) encouraging that phenomenon.

Now, I was more refering to do ends if you don't know the patterns well ( per instance ) more than the global layout of the labyrinth.
I prefer usually not looking at poe.lab and just trying to find my way, that fits much more in my "fun".

The global layout basically helps for the first run if you are trying to be efficient, after that if you remember a bit it goes pretty fast.

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Fruz wrote:

Well GGG seems to be ( too much imho, way too much ) encouraging that phenomenon.

I'd love to argue about this with you, but unfortunately I agree. :(

A trap here or there in a hack and slash is fine but I don't enjoy the way it is now (large mandatory trap areas). I like the idea of having an alternate route in layouts which would have no/minimal traps. Maybe it's longer and/or has tougher enemies so the normal trap filled way acts as a shortcut. This small change would allow those who don't like the lab to potentially enjoy it more while maintaining the experience for those who like it as is.

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Fruz wrote:

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Shredzilly wrote:

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I don´t find the Lab hard at all, yet I still hate it.

I even made a Char on which I can just run through Traps as if they are nothing just to check if I then like the Lab, that seems to be one of your Arguments - "practice til it gets easy, afterwards you like it" .
I tell you what, with my Lab Runner I like one thing about the Lab - the Reward at the End.
That´s it.
Deadends, Lever here, Lever there, wrong Turn here, wrong turn there is just annoying as Hell.
It´s like a bad map for me ( layoutwise) with better Loot at the End.

Cheers

So basically, you onle want ledge like areas ? is that it ?
If it was really that easy, you would have not felt the need to try a character that avoid traps ... (imho).

PS : I don't think that good lab runners get into deadends and wrong turns all the time by the way, they probably remember the patterns well though.

I mainly play Strand, Beach, Racecourse, Gorge, Atoll.. And never get bored.
I avoid Maps with huge Deadends etc., because i think it is a DesignFlaw.
Lazy implementation.
Same as runnning half of the Map back to the Master if you finished his / her Mission.
Diablo 3 manages a good compromise between Deadends in Layouts. Not to long, not to short.
So yeah, I would prefer a Ledgish Layout.
I haven´t spoken to anyone who says "Man I just love Maps with Deadends, I usually just play them.."

I´m a Twinker at Heart, so I run with every Char through the Lab.
Never died to a Trap.
I just wanted to try the Argument which pops up often here ".. if you practice and the Lab gets easy you will like it.."
Now I can say, no, I still hate it.

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Shredzilly wrote:

I mainly play Strand, Beach, Racecourse, Gorge, Atoll.. And never get bored.
I avoid Maps with huge Deadends etc., because i think it is a DesignFlaw.
Lazy implementation.

The word in bold somehow makes the whole thing very ironic.
Kinda makes me think even more that the game has become to easy, just brainlessely run into a straight line and shoot ....

So fair enough, traps are not your nemesis, dead ends are ....
Well the area is called a "Labyrinth", it's already not very difficult to run through it, but at least it has a bit of a somewhat labyrintic layout.
Game cannot please everybody, also I think that having areas that you enjoy less makes you enjoy the areas that you like more more.