SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Making the labyrinth easy would not magically turn its unfun aspects into fun ones. This seems ridiculously self-evident to me.

So why do you guys want removed everything that makes the Lab slightly challenging: trap gauntlets, % trap damage, 1 portal... ??

If GGG would remove what this thread considers "un-fun", the Lab would become like any other zone that can be over-levelled & over-geared or zerged with unlimited portals. Ascending wouldn't be a trial anymore and would become meaningless.

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The_Reporter wrote:

No effort is how the system is already designed, Morbo. Open your eyes lol

Open your eyes man.

And some people like to do stuff themselves, paying for somebody else to run the lab is even beyond just trading, I wish it wasn't there but GGG obviously has a different opinion on the matter.

And you still have to go through some traps, even if somebody else runs it for you.
But what would you know about it after all, right ?

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The_Reporter wrote:

No effort is how the system is already designed, Morbo. Open your eyes lol

People who intentionally ruin their gameplay do not concern me. PoE was always full of players who bought carry service for every slight obstacle in the game: bandits, Act 2 Vaal, Dominus, Mala... not only in HC, but in softcore too, which is mind-boggling.

Should GGG just remove Act bosses because you can pay carry anyway?

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morbo wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Making the labyrinth easy would not magically turn its unfun aspects into fun ones. This seems ridiculously self-evident to me.

So why do you guys want removed everything that makes the Lab slightly challenging: trap gauntlets, % trap damage, 1 portal... ??

If GGG would remove what this thread considers "un-fun", the Lab would become like any other zone that can be over-levelled & over-geared or zerged with unlimited portals. Ascending wouldn't be a trial anymore and would become meaningless.

I'd like to see it less top-heavy (even after ascending). Having 90% of the reward concentrated in loot/enchantment piñatas at the end incentivizes skipping as much as possible of the remaining content (even full key runs--you skip as much as possible to get to the keys and then skip as much as possible to get to the end).

A lot of people say the Labyrinth feels like a waste of time. While I won't speak for them, I will say that THIS is why it feels like a waste of time to me. You're just skipping as much as possible to pop the piñata.

This makes it more of an exercise in economics than one in fun. A lot of people say the Labyrinth feels like work. While I won't speak for them, again, I will say that THIS is why it feels more like work than like play to me.

But these comments and concerns are nothing new. They've been stated multiple times by many people. They're just ignored by the lab-defending cult (I stole that word from you guys; you like it when I use it to describe you as well?) because they are much harder to insult than straw men such as "You just suck and want something easy."

Guys, i found out how the idea of the labyrinth was conceived...

Did you remember all the desync problems back in the day? It was really hard to handle all the complains, so GGG had to get outside help in order to fix it. Gamers as they were, in order to fix desink, they called de only plumber they knew... Mario.

Mario, as an italian plumber, barely understood what GGG wanted to fix. All he could reply was "It's ah me Mario!". After several hours of debate, he just said "Here we go!" and went on a magical journey to fix desync. Barely knowing the lands, he struggled in order to finish his herculean feat. The nightmare was watching...

Right after he managed to find and fix de sink, wraeclast's corruption got to him and transformed him into Pizzaro. At first he was just a round pizza full of bile and rot. GGG were so happy that Mario fixed de sink, but they couldn't find him nowhere to congratulate him. Afterall he was just a disgusting pizza now.

After evolving for several months, the formless pizza took a terrifying man-shaped skeletal form. Mario wasn't Mario anymore, he was the Lord Pizzaro. Influenced by the nightmare, he made the most disgusting thing Wraeclast had ever seen. A mansion filled with traps. The nightmare saw the troubles the poor italian plumber had to go through in order to defeat his arch-nemesis Bowser and made sure to implement every single trap it could find from Mario's memory.

When GGG discovered that Mario had been corrupted and invaded Wraeclast in the form of Pizzaro, they were left speechless. Trying to avoid a lawsuit, all they could do was corrupt Pizzaro even more, so that people would not be able to see that a corrupted Mario was pulling the strings. They removed the p and z from Pizzaro's name and sent a wraeclastian ghost to make sure that he doesn't spit fireballs from his mouth, like Bowser did. Instead, the ghost would create the illusion that the fireballs came from its ethereal substance.

And thus Izaro and the Mansi-labyrinth was born.

Now their only hope was in the blindness of their whiteknights. Let's hope they live up to their expectations.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

A lot of people say the Labyrinth feels like a waste of time. While I won't speak for them, I will say that THIS is why it feels like a waste of time to me. You're just skipping as much as possible to pop the piñata.

This makes it more of an exercise in economics than one in fun. A lot of people say the Labyrinth feels like work.

"Lab is a waste of time":

If you are in just for Asc points, it's about 1h of playtime to get 6 points, which massively increase your char power. Nothing else in the game gives you so much power for relatively a small investment (Uber is harder, but also not really needed). By this reasoning, Lab should be made more difficult, not easier or be removed. (unless you remove Ascendancy expansion too)

If you are in for the enchantments, those are actually horrible, imo, too much RNG. Boots & gloves are ok, but helm enchants are just skip material.

If you are in for the loot, see next section.

"Lab feels like work":

Is there anything in this grindy game that cant be described like this? Leveling to 100 is a massive project, leveling your gems to 20/20 a huge time sink, reaching the Shaper, grinding for Uber frags, grinding for X exalts to buy Y item, rerolling (=grinding levels until you can equip X item)... everything could be described as work, if you want.

Lab chest runs are just another task you do in this game to gain loot & power. Else you'd be grinding maps for XP, or Atziri, or MF-ing on mid maps, or farming Malachai in group, or grinding for X div.card, or whatever. Admittedly those chests are a bit too lucrative, they shouldn't drop maps that bypass your Atals progression and ilvl 84 items shouldn't be there either.

Players try to speed up things and rush everything, Lab is not an exception. Check Dom/Mala farming groups, Dried Lake runs or map rotas. It's just skip everything and rush to the final goal.

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morbo wrote:

"Lab feels like work":

Is there anything in this grindy game that cant be described like this?

You're missing the distinction I described when I called the Lab "top-heavy" (everything after was just explaining what I meant by that term). Or ignoring it. I don't know which. I guess I really don't care. :P

Grinding =/= skipping. Speed =/= skipping. Until you grasp that, nothing I have said will make sense to you.