SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

I think it's M3, but I could be wrong. Everyone knows that three Ms are way too many!

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gathor wrote:

I don't really believe or rely on steam numbers and mostly take the "data" with pinch of salt. GGG could release the numbers but so far no luck in convincing them to do so. I dislike the lab but I don't think that lab is the main reason for bad numbers. As morbo said there are many other factors that we would have to take into consideration to see the full picture and avoid said biased interpretation.

What is M1+M2 Mr forum leader, I am kinda lost with this one?

M1= move only (left click)
M2= your attack\spell (right click)


Its a reference to playing a class like pyro in TF2.

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Turtledove wrote:

It's two different interpretations of the same set of numbers. It is true that the drop off slope is steeper after Labyrinth was released. The counter argument (as I understand it) it that the peak was a bit higher and so the drop off slope should be expected to be steeper because it is a greater percentage of first time players.

basically, yes.
there is nothing to indicate ( and definitely not enough to assume that, as a fact ) that lab is "killing" the game.
Judging by some of the lab haters, PoE would be on the verge of dying because of the lab ......
no.

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Fruz wrote:

Judging by some of the lab haters, PoE would be on the verge of dying because of the lab ......

If that was the case I would assure you that the lab would have already been changed.

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

It's two different interpretations of the same set of numbers. It is true that the drop off slope is steeper after Labyrinth was released. The counter argument (as I understand it) it that the peak was a bit higher and so the drop off slope should be expected to be steeper because it is a greater percentage of first time players.

basically, yes.
there is nothing to indicate ( and definitely not enough to assume that, as a fact ) that lab is "killing" the game.
Judging by some of the lab haters, PoE would be on the verge of dying because of the lab ......
no.

Strawman argument

Labyrinth has hurt retention apparently especially in the HC leagues. GGG would fix it before it would be on the verge of dying because of the labyrinth.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

It's two different interpretations of the same set of numbers. It is true that the drop off slope is steeper after Labyrinth was released. The counter argument (as I understand it) it that the peak was a bit higher and so the drop off slope should be expected to be steeper because it is a greater percentage of first time players.

basically, yes.
there is nothing to indicate ( and definitely not enough to assume that, as a fact ) that lab is "killing" the game.
Judging by some of the lab haters, PoE would be on the verge of dying because of the lab ......
no.

Strawman argument

Labyrinth has hurt retention apparently especially in the HC leagues. GGG would fix it before it would be on the verge of dying because of the labyrinth.

Again you are using numbers without accounting for factors that have been EXPLICITLY STATED as being relevant. Like streamers that alternate leagues as well as players that do the same. The leagues being one idea now, instead of 2.

I hope act 5 is just a huge labyrinth full of traps

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Turtledove wrote:

Labyrinth has hurt retention apparently especially in the HC leagues.

Was it the lab? Or all the random crashes lately? Or the fact that the game has become too easy for hardcore hardcore players? Or ...?

Nothing more than guesses and hearsay.

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Sa_Re wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Labyrinth has hurt retention apparently especially in the HC leagues.

Was it the lab? Or all the random crashes lately? Or the fact that the game has become too easy for hardcore hardcore players? Or ...?

Nothing more than guesses and hearsay.

It could be due to other things like random crashes. That's why I said "apparently". Taking your alternative explanation as an example, I'd be surprised if it was random crashes because HC did pretty well through the whole bad desynch period, which you'd think that the desynch would be much worse for the HC population than random crashes. I know that desynch affected me in SC much more back then does random crashes now.

In those times desync was present all the time so we adjusted our playstyle to it. Lockstep broadened build diversity but one could argue that its impact was bigger on SC as it made glasscannons more viable. The crashes got worse at some point, it's harder to accept because we are not used to them.

That being said I dunno if they are the cause for players quitting. I just listed other possible causes, I'm not saying they are more likely because we don't have the data. You see the lab as the main reason but don't forget that your view might be skewed by your own dislike for it.