SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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IMSilver wrote:

Rework Lab and Ascendency points.

Make POE great again!

Very nice summary! Thank you for sharing your valuable opinion. :-)

Hello,

First of all, I'd like to state that I deeply enjoyed this game until the Lab was created.

Why I think the lab shouldn't exist as it is now

I completely agree with changing it somehow for this part of the game not to be mandatory. If I wanted to play puzzles, I'd go and play Tetris. First of all: bad internet problems. 1 ms of delay and you're dead.

Today I was doing uber lab just to get the final ascendancy points. How good does it feel to die at the end of the lab to a stupid 1 ms lag? Awful. But a good combination of a sentry and spirit bombs will kill you 100%. Let's say I repeat the lab, OK, but I also lost a profecy chain at the last step. Could this be any worse? Sure, I still have to repeat this process to get the points and have fun in maps.

This fight is also not similar at all to other bosses. Aztiri - farm the fragments and give it a try, if you die you have more portals. I understand that if you don't get it in 6 tries you're done, but at least you get the 6 tries. Same for Rigwald, it was a side challenge that was interesting and it wasn't forced on you.

If players don't play hardcore, it's for a reason and I think they should never be forced to do so.

Personal best solution

Easiest one: make it softcore again. Give us our 6 portals, or 3 or at least 2! Crying about disconnects would disappear and paper-thin characters would stand a chance. As I said before, I play softcore for a reason. Some players just don't have the time to grind it 24/7.

Solution 2: Make the points to be given on Malachai end-game kill and the last ones for X number of bosses killed in high tier maps. Most people can and will do this content.

As it is now, I hate every single part of the Lab mechanics and I wish it could completely disappear from the game. You're forced to do things in a game and that makes it boring.

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Dos_Fafner wrote:

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Rayzabladez wrote:

If the numbers are dropping off quickly as in this latest league, that isn't a good sign.
If a lot of players are complaining about the way the game is going, that isn't a good sign either.
If GGG don't appeal to the masses, that's BAD BUSINESS!

Are you a market analyst for GGG? I thought not. It would be inaccurate, to say the least, to blame the player drop off on the lab alone. The league is pretty widely panned on the forums, the game direction is abysmal, the XP change is hands down the dumbest thing they've ever done, and seriously the list just goes on and on.

I'v played for years and this is probably the 2nd longest break I'v taken with no visible end in sight. Hopefully the next updates bring some overdo changes and some changes to the game design philosophy overall as it is in a terrible place. I don't think they need to include castrating the AC/Lab experience, however, I do think we are past the time for (3) difficulties and eliminating any of them would mean less lab runs for ascending characters.

Anyways, I really don't care at this time so save your vitriol about the lab for responding to someone else I just wanted to call you out on your correlation without causation regarding the player drop off.

I played the whole last season but the Lab , Chaser Item nerf and XP change make this game so unfun I just lost all interest. I agree with this post.

It seems like GGG takes everybody's money, but only develops the game for a select few.

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Siochan wrote:

It seems like GGG takes everybody's money, but only develops the game for a select few.

Stop giving them money.

Problem solved.

No..@dosfafner.

I'm not a GGG analyst.

What I am however, is a business man and a game player.

A mature businessman with a very long career in business and in the computer and gaming industry.

What I wrote is fact.

This business that GGG are in is fairly brutal.

It isn't like selling biscuits for the girl guides.

The online gaming industry is super competitive.

Especially for an independent company.

Game players are your bread and butter. Piss them off, alienate them, you lose them.

Simple business mechanics.

Lose the players, lose the business. Even you can understand that.

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Rayzabladez wrote:

Lose the players, lose the business.

Absolutely.

I do wonder, though, where the primary part of GGG's revenue stream comes from. Is it mostly new players who try out the game, buy a bit of stuff, and then drop out; or is it the committed long-term players who invest a lot of money in supporter packs etc.; or are both essential?

If it mostly new players with a lot of turn over, then maybe what GGG does with the labyrinth doesn't matter too much from a financial perspective (unless the press is too bad) -- and Chris commented once that they wanted to put in a complete normal labyrinth to give those players a full experience of the game. If it's the long-term players, then GGG may have a more difficult problem given how divided the community has become.

I put money in the game.

Even more than it's necessary.

I tho i was supporting a company that wanted to be different, from the f2p model to the philosophy of the game.

Now that they obviously made enough money they are starting to shit on everyone that supported them.

1) currency tabs, i have 2 of those, so i'm not talking from a selfish perspective. To add a new kind of tab is an insult to every player that got premium tabs in the past, because instead of implementing them as mode for premium tabs, player have to invest new money in the game, despite how much have they spend in their accounts. Now everyone is talking about new maps tabs, new cards tabs, even new kind of AH tabs to solve the trading problem. GGG is now in the RIOT train, new shit, for new money, fuck you if you got multiple premium tabs, you have to get more points if you want to get the new "quality of life" a.k.a. features that have been the norm in a lot of games from the past 10 to 15 years. I'm not even talking about the gap between f2p players and people who got tabs, this is a dick move trend that fucks everyone over. Have you purchase 100 bucks in the past years? Well bad news, if you want the currency tab or any new tab type that comes in the future with this model, you are gonna have to put more in, or stfu cause it's not pay to win, so quit complaining, and if you don't like it, go play another game, we already got your money, and if you won't keep paying you are worthless to GGG.

2) autistic feedback. Yeah, i must say the support kinda tries to solve some problems, but when it comes to the game, they do wrv the fuck they want, with hypocritical and often contradictory arguments. They fixed the lag problem, the sound problem, the loading time problem... at least that's what they say in the patch notes. In real life people with monster equipment still plays without the sound, streamers literally recognize in public that the short loading times are bullshit and they even recommend to wait every time you enter a new zone, because you will get lag from shit loading even tho the game makes you believe you are ready to play.

And yes, let's talk some Lab. Before the details of prophecy everyone fucking hated to do the trials every fucking time. But for a second it was like they did something about that. Now you only have to do them once per account per league. BUT SURPRISE!!! They added a new Lab, with more Asc points behind, a new Lab that's so fucking surreal to get into the % of players that actually get to try a full new Asc class has to be stupid low. Most players won't even get past cruel, now you are for sure not getting the full Asc experience. At least there's no rng there! You are not a streamer? You don't have 16 hours a day to play? You don't play in a guild that helps you advance (a.k.a. cheat the system)? Go watch some twitch stream. If PoE it's not your job or you play the time required as if it really were your job, then most likely, even if you get one or two chars far enough, there's no way in hell you are gonna get the opportunity to play 80% of the content GGG worked so hard to make.

GGG has nothing on Valve or Blizzard on this front either.

3) double morals and high level pr bullshit. They want to make a game for hardcore gamers, and they want to make trade a way to create player interaction. That's sounds great! BUT WAIT, in real life, people make money helping players with lower level characters or not op builds or wrv to get through content they couldn't otherwise. You don't have to do the Lab! You can pay to get someone to do it for you. You don't even have to do any boss, as long as you can pay. I've seen in HC players asking for help with the act 3 bosses. Not only that, that's one of the main arguments people give in favor of the Lab, "just stop whining, don't get the Asc cause you don't need the point's, or just pay someone to do it for you". Like, are you fucking kidding me. The system is shit, but instead of working on how to balance the game, let's just solve the problem making the pay for runs a thing. This is a common practice, and it's a fucking shame. But for GGG it's better to allow such bullshit than to have to work on the game problems. And of course, those who profit from this practice will defend the status quo, will defend GGGs all the way.

On the trade front. I'm fine with the premium tabs having the public function. I'm not fine with the fact that I have to go to a 3rd party web site, that's exploitable as fuck, with a search system that gives you cancer just trying to figure out how to make it work besides the most basic concept, to then having to do the exchange in person with the other player, if he happens to be online, and happens to really wanna do the trade and it's not just listing the items for some kind of scam or just cause he can, but not given a single fuck on the actual sales, and in any case, just wasting your time. Every time the auto trade or AH topic comes up, the forever defenders of this system, this obsolete system for years now, they bring up the D3 example. Why not talk about the other hundreds of successful trade systems that in fact work and have been working fine. In fact, a rapid trade system gives more room for player interaction than the actual mess we have now. And in fact, a good AH kind of system gets rid of most of the scams and abuses the actual trade mechanics allow to an obscene level. There's no problem any decent AH or auto trade system can have, that it's not magnified to the extreme with this 3rd party web sites listing shitshow. So who's against this feature? Well, in the same way some people make currency with Lab and bosses runs, the players that game the actual model, make currency by fucking over players with less knowledge. Try to do that in a AH setup, the market will limit their margins by a huge amount, and they would no longer be able to pull some of the shit the listing system can't even start to avoid.

At this point, GGG has come all the way from that nice company that had practices that made them stand over the shitty greedy practices other companies were known for, and the line between them is blurred at best if not totally gone.

That dude that comes from time to time and gives interviews in front of the elite of PoE, let's call him the Ben Brode of GGG, and answer the soft and superficial question they have prepared for him, while agreeing in almost every aspect in a way that can make a normal human want to vomit for the excess of circle jerking and blatant pr like bullshit environment... The Ben Brode of GGG, said something like for him this game should be a game you would want to put 10 bucks on if you wanna really play and not just fuck around a couple hours and uninstall.

Let me tell you, if you keep forgetting the premium tabs and crating new "quality of life" tabs that must be purchase on their own, even players with a lot more money into the game would have to keep paying more each time, or be left behind.

But of course, a new tab makes GGG more money than the fact that adding new features to the existing premium tabs would, by showing f2p players that if they invest a bit of money in the game, GGG will get your back, will respect and honor your contribution, making it more desirable to stop playing for free and actually paying for something they can trust would give them every time more value.

The decisions GGG made in the last 2 leagues show without a doubt that the old nice company once they tried to sell is gone. You can expect from GGG nothing more you would expect from RIOT, VALVE or BLIZZARD. Not in the business model, not in the game design, not in the game balance, not anywhere at all.

They got big enough, they cash the money from the older players, to the point the couldn't care less if they leave the game or not. They reach the point where fanboys and new players are more desirable because they don't ask questions, they don't complain, and they even defend absurd arguments against the "haters" just because they are happy eating wrv shit GGG drops with a smile and a thank you very much.

They don't even care if they change the core of the game with beautiful features like the LAb and the trials, cause they don't need anymore the old players that knew another PoE, that put money to support the company making a game with a different concept, but that as of now, are less likely to be as profitable as newer players that don't know better, and are just beginning to invest money in the game.

GGG and PoE are in fact dead, there's a company and a game with the same name, but they are not even shadows of their former selves. So no, this game maybe alive, and this company maybe making a profit, but for a lot of now expendable costumers, the GGG and PoE we learn to love, they exist no more.

So there's no point to argue if the game is dead or is gonna die. It's probably alive in some sense, maybe even bigger than it was before. But the apologists would never understand what died in the way, what we lost in the way, and what we mean when we say GGG is taking this game in a shameful direction.

So Rest In Peace PoE, you were once the best game in your genre, now you are just not the worst in a market that has no real competition.

Even in success you will always carry the burden of never getting nowhere near as big as a lot of us believed you could.

You are now just another low tier game that makes a profit, run by a company that only looks at the bottom line.

Damn wweeep(alt) getting real. Hope still tells me to hold out but reality is a little harder to argue with. Every expansion is a double-edged sword but somehow it seems they keep dulling the wrong side of the blade. They stumbled on success but that doesn't mean they still deserve it. It's too bad we're talking about real people and families when we say these things about PoE, they do come before the game I suppose. Maybe as companies they shouldn't put video games in those positions in the first place. If you want to produce a product whose sole purpose is profit maybe video games in general shouldn't be that, make T-shirts or something. Honestly makes me want to make a video game company who's purpose isn't to produce a profit but turn just enough to make ends meet so the game can remain outside the influence of ever increasing financial demands. We need some hippie video game developers!

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wweeep wrote:

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Sound harash, but there is some truth in this post. GGG changed over the last year(s). The only thing I don't agree with is that it isn't right for them to deliver the new QfL Stashtabs. You're right: They could have implemented this in the premium stash tabs. But lets be honest here: Stashtabs are a one-time purchase. You pay your 20$ once (maybe even less if it's a deal) and then you will probably n ever again pay something. At least I guess that's how it is for the most players. Lets not forget that when we talk about World of Warcraft, the player has to pay:

- The Game
- The Add-Ons
- the monthly fee (only allowing you to play the game)

The first year WoW will cost you like 150$+, probably even 200$+. And that's just one year. After that, you will keep paying your 12$ per month or you can pay more and instantly get a max-level character. WoW does cost a lot of money and they player doesn't get much in return for that money.

If you want to play PoE, you have to pay:

- nothing

The game is free to download and there are no Add-Ons you need to buy. There's also no monthly fee. Now lets compare the income of a WoW and a PoE player:

WoW Player: 150$+ after 1year
PoE Player: 0$ for one year

So GGG needs to search for way to at least motivate the player to pay for something at least once in a year. (Premium) Stash Tabs are a very good way to make money, but most are satisfied with 3 bundles. After that, the player will probably play the game many years without paying anything. Thanks to the currency stash tab, people tend to buy this tab for 7.50$. And lets not forget: You still can place your currency in the normal tabs. No one forces you to buy it.

I just wanted to post this because I dont think GGG is really trying to rip off the player. It's still a game that is meant to make some kind of profit and why shouldn't they make (alot) of money when they deliver a good game?

But especially that last part is important: Is PoE still a good game? I think right now it is still Ok. I still have fun and since I don't like the lab, I pay for the runs. But like you said: A game shouldn't motivate the player to pay for rushs. A game should motivate the player to do the things on their own. PoE is all about hardcore gaming experience and if you can just pay someone to do the bosses or the lab for you, then the game fails to create an anjoying atmosphere. For example: I think the player has to be in the actual boss room to get the kill. He doesn't need to do the damage, but at least he needs to be present and needs to tackle the risk of dying. And the same goes for the lab. But don't get me wrong: I still think the lab, as it is right now, is an insult for many players who like the classic way of PoE and don't want the gauntlet gameplay. It is forced upon you because of the AC points and there's no real reason why GGG made that decision. Yes, traps are a nice idea, but in practical terms, it is not fair to actually force the players to do it. Some don't like the gauntlet-gameplay, some just have a bad connection and others just find it boring compared to classic gameplay. And no, saying you can play without the AC points is no valid argument, since in PoE, it's all about customization of your character and the AC points have a heavy influence on your builds effectiveness.

So all in all I can understand that GGG tries to find ways to make money in the future and I can still enjoy the game. But the direction of where the game is going worries me a little bit and I really fear the PoE becomes something which I can't enjoy anymore in the future, especially since I play it so long now and supported it several times as good as I can.