SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

In regards to the OP, sorry, I'm one of those who likes the labyrinth, enjoys the trap challenge, and had tons of fun when Ascendancy launched. That said, I agree that gating these points isn't the ideal solution, and would be flexible enough to have some other reward for the Ascendancy trials and labyrinth.

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AceNightfire wrote:

My personal idea of how to fix this:

Give every player who joins the labyrinth the choice between 2 ways of defeating the labyrinth. Here is a grafic that shows what I mean

I second that!!!

Personally I have no issues completing any and all ascendancy traps, mazes, etc. I actually enjoy it and prefer the challenge. Perhaps that's because I love the old platform gaming and have the coordination and dexterity to perform it even in my fairly ripe 40s age. For example, I loved jumping quests in MMOs, played all the old NES games, etc.

But at the same time I realize and accept the fact that not everyone has the same interests as me. Some people can be good at it, but still hate it, while others fumble around with it because they've never played platform games in their youth, or just never cared to spend the time with them. So because of that, AceNightfire's proposal is an excellent suggestion. It gives us the best of both worlds: people like me can enjoy the challenge, and people who just play PoE as an ARPG can enjoy the enemy battle with casual traps. And heck, there are even days when I'm not feeling like a trap challenge and would opt for the battle-focused challenge instead.

Labyrinth is amazing, it solves the #1 gameplay issue I have had with this game since Open Beta and fullfills what I had hoped Torchlight 2 would do but its demos/betas were misleading as content featured in them didn't make it to the final version of the game.

What issue did it solve? Lack of level design.

Large/Small areas with just monsters and occasionally a ordinary door? for every single zone of every single act and every map? That got boring pretty fast. This Labyrinth was a massive step up in that there is now genuine level design in the game.

I really like it as it is, though I've only experienced it in Normal Difficulty so far.

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cipher_nemo wrote:

In regards to the OP, sorry, I'm one of those who likes the labyrinth, enjoys the trap challenge, and had tons of fun when Ascendancy launched. That said, I agree that gating these points isn't the ideal solution, and would be flexible enough to have some other reward for the Ascendancy trials and labyrinth.

"

AceNightfire wrote:

My personal idea of how to fix this:

Give every player who joins the labyrinth the choice between 2 ways of defeating the labyrinth. Here is a grafic that shows what I mean

I second that!!!

Personally I have no issues completing any and all ascendancy traps, mazes, etc. I actually enjoy it and prefer the challenge. Perhaps that's because I love the old platform gaming and have the coordination and dexterity to perform it even in my fairly ripe 40s age. For example, I loved jumping quests in MMOs, played all the old NES games, etc.

But at the same time I realize and accept the fact that not everyone has the same interests as me. Some people can be good at it, but still hate it, while others fumble around with it because they've never played platform games in their youth, or just never cared to spend the time with them. So because of that, AceNightfire's proposal is an excellent suggestion. It gives us the best of both worlds: people like me can enjoy the challenge, and people who just play PoE as an ARPG can enjoy the enemy battle with casual traps. And heck, there are even days when I'm not feeling like a trap challenge and would opt for the battle-focused challenge instead.

I think the picture is a good indication actually as to why it would be difficult to have both and the "arcade" style one still be the shortest way possible.

If you look at my nice paint skill, you can see its just a strait line basically thru the "challenge" We discussed this in the past and it should\would only be possible to have a lab that is more monster based zone then trap based, if it actually took longer.

In the picture i drew on the top, there are a few various sets of encounters where you have to back trap to complete a "trap encounter", you can't always walk in a strait line.

In addition I feel like the lab actually currently DOES have both of these style "room" The smaller inside areas are more trap based, while the larger outside zones are more mob based, as well as the darts :P



In this following edit, you will see that it needs to be more "maze like" with "objectives" you need to complete before proceeding, so you cant just path with super quicksilver flask to run past all the mobs. Another alternative is to require the zone to be fully cleared instead. This gaurantees that you will spend more time then a "trap runner"

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Regulator wrote:

That is really helpful AceNightfire, ill put that in the OP under the Labyrinth Rework Ideas tab. Hopefully more people will follow your example and actually contribute to this thread in a similar way.

I wouldn't mind more complex (maze-like) rooms as long as the game doesn't force me to play PoE arcade style. Even if it takes me 15 minutes more compared to a trap-runner (example: 45min vs 60min), I would still choose it because it is safer and suits my playstyle more.

I thinkt he best solution to this very difficult topic would be to fit the taste of both sides and I think my suggestion is a good basic idea of how to do it.

Also it fits lore-wise in my opinion. The statue in act 3 has scales of justice in her hands, indicating a balance between 2 things. And giving the player 2 options (one which requires cleverness/dexterity and the other that requires strength/courage) would perfectly fit into that theme imo.

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AceNightfire wrote:

Very good idea !

Maybe they could add waves of mobs that spawn like in Coward's trial if they don't want us to finish a room too fast.

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AceNightfire wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

That is really helpful AceNightfire, ill put that in the OP under the Labyrinth Rework Ideas tab. Hopefully more people will follow your example and actually contribute to this thread in a similar way.

I wouldn't mind more complex (maze-like) rooms as long as the game doesn't force me to play PoE arcade style. Even if it takes me 15 minutes more compared to a trap-runner (example: 45min vs 60min), I would still choose it because it is safer and suits my playstyle more.

I thinkt he best solution to this very difficult topic would be to fit the taste of both sides and I think my suggestion is a good basic idea of how to do it.

Also it fits lore-wise in my opinion. The statue in act 3 has scales of justice in her hands, indicating a balance between 2 things. And giving the player 2 options (one which requires cleverness/dexterity and the other that requires strength/courage) would perfectly fit into that theme imo.

See this is the sort of idea that I can support, so as long as its implemented correctly. It also seems to be the one that others (that like the lab) wouldn't mind as well.

Not only does this keep AC in the lab, but it makes the lab more enjoyable for those that don't like the trap gameplay. You still get to do the same boss fights and mechanics (keeping the traps in the last room I think or having some other challenge there).

This sort of solution also solves my gripe about people wanting the AC points rewarded to you simply for doing something you have to do to progress in the game anyway, like killing malachai (i know you dont have to do him in merciless, still)



However there are still a couple of issues with this, for example what about the trials? Are you guys ok with running the trials once per league that involve traps or would these need to be redesigned as well, if so I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that. Plus this leaves an issue with the map level trials as well, at least with the regular trials they are quick and easy and someone can rush you, in the maps, playing with a person or so extra can help, but there isn't really a short cut.


In addition the map level lab's additional difficulty comes from the combination of these new traps+old traps, if it were to be changed as well for the mazelike longer alternative then that too would need something added to make it more difficult or longer to complete.


As you can see it isn't a simple solution or as easy to do as people think, which raises the question do you think GGG would implement this sort of solution in phases or would it all have to be ready at once, if it were to be changed?

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

Strange. I proposed nearly the same idea earlier in the thread and as a result, was called mentally incompetent by all you lab-lovers.

Anyway, it's good that some of you are at least taking the initiative to evolve past your own noses. Good job. :)

About the trials: They're still goofed, IMO. Use them once in Normal difficulty as a 'tutorial' of sorts for new players, then remove for cruel/merc. They become tedium for the sake of tedium after the first time around.

Yes, but don't you see it? The lab changes constantly! And the lore, oh the lore. Problems, so many problems. Everywhere. Can't do anything and if you don't see it, then you are shitposting/ potato iq etc.

Meanwhile in the temp hardcore league everything is dead, from the turtles in the dried lake to the trade chat of the number one. Traps killed everything.

The humanity...

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

Strange. I proposed nearly the same idea earlier in the thread and as a result, was called mentally incompetent by all you lab-lovers.

Anyway, it's good that some of you are at least taking the initiative to evolve past your own noses. Good job. :)

About the trials: They're still goofed, IMO. Use them once in Normal difficulty as a 'tutorial' of sorts for new players, then remove for cruel/merc. They become tedium for the sake of tedium after the first time around.

Um, its basically how you purpose it, not just what you purpose.


My stance has always been that no solution that removes AC from the lab or offers AC outside of the lab is acceptable, so of course any solution that does remain true to this will be supported by me, as long as its done correctly.


The trials all get more complicated, even from normal>cruel>merciless>endgame maps. That's why I think they stuck to doing it once per league, but per difficulty.

Please refrain from feeding certain trolls that lack even the basic reading and comprehensions skills, trolling them doesnt help either cause they lack the social skills to understand mockery too. (i once wanted to make an analogy between said people and clowns but i found it insulting towards the latter). I also want to apologize to everyone reading this thread for their behaviour since they cant understand how vomit inducing their responses and contradicting comments are.

This is for the reasonable people only :

What this thread tries to achieve is to allow everyone, every single player to have the chance to optimize/customize their character in the most optimal way and with as many option possible, something that this form of gating prevents in contrast to what GGG usually implemented in the past.

To cater to everyone we do not and never have asked for labyrinth to be removed

The title might seem misleading but after reading the opening post every question will be answered with solid and reasonably supported arguments and analysis. Besides my initial request that is completely removing AC from labyrinth, every single suggestion presented there leaves labyrinth untouched with all the rewards it offers now still there.



On a side note, first time since i can remember that after a league/expansion update that there was no "successfull deployment" or "x update was a success" kind of news in the announcements. They still havent released any data regarding the labyrinth from perandus yet, why is that? Around 30% drop (12k players) in player numbers too in steam charts, guess many left. Labyrinth participation numbers spiked since the release but they drop steadily as the time passes too, not a coincidence. What a failure is that labyrinth and they still refuse to adress it. What can i say.