SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Amathiusmm wrote:

I believe that what is central to alot of people's objections to Lab - and what is not said , is that for the most part many of these players have reduced risk almost entirely from their gameplay experience.

I think many of them are not used to actually being threatened in the way the lab threatens players and it is a failure to adjust. That the lab is a problem for many standard players makes me laugh since ive never played standard and running lab in HC is so much more dangerous. Its just players attempting to make the game more casual ala WoW forum screeching. Bear in mind the forum population is tiny , but vocal and does not necessarily display the views of the majority of those playing poe . Personally i believe lab should be about 20-40% more difficult.

Lets hope GGG understands this.

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Turtledove wrote:

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miljan wrote:

This are all wrong questions that dont improve or change anything with the lab,for people that hate that type of gamplay. The core problem of the lab is different type of gameplay. That type of gameplay people just dont enjoy and are not playing diablo like arpg because of them. And this would not be a problem, if the lab was totally optional content, but they put the subclasses behind it, a new mechanic and core part of the game now.

The only way to fix this problem is to give players additional way to get the sub class, without the need to do the traps bullshit. That option, can be harder than the lab it self, or even cost like pay few chaos to skip to the boss or something like that.

But you must understand, the problem of the lab is gameplay type that people dont like and is very different than all other parts of POE and generally all diablo like games.

I do like the high level thought that making the lab fun instead of optional is an important first step in the thought process. Miljan I think does a good job explaining why I don't think that high level plan would work when you got into the details. My fear is that it would further contaminate PoE game play in other PoE content and make it feel like trap game play. If that happened then my internal conflict/dilemma would be immediately solved because I'd feel the game I loved was lost forever and I'd have to be satisfied with D3 or something.

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Turtledove wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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The lab is a worthless POS, get rid of it already.

Your comment is worthless, get rid of it already.

No seriously what do you aim to accomplish with this "shit" level of post?

You falsely claimed that only the same 4 or 5 people post in these forums saying that they dislike labyrinth. So I guess his post is valuable because it proves you wrong again.

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dickhole_mcghee wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I never said you don't understand the English language.

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*cough*

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Turtledove wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

I think dick's first language isn't english. That's fine, it isn't mine either. Here are some other words that can be used instead of that one.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gate+synonyms

Hope it helped. :)

Sorry for getting off topic. You might be right but, I think the main problem is that dick likes to argue using a question and answer technique. That can work great in a one-on-one verbal conversation. In written especially in a forum format like this, it doesn't work. What is needed is for the person to instead present the argument in a fully complete form and then the discussion can go on from there.

Come on now.

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Turtledove wrote:

Is that supposed to prove I said you don't understand the English language? It proves just the opposite. It also seems to prove that Pyrokar didn't say you don't understand the English language. He said he thought that your first language isn't English. I told him he might be right? You must be trolling me?

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Regulator wrote:

I really appreciate your effort Scrotie but you see, everything you just said is purely opinion based meaning we already have a problem before you even suggest/question anything. Your question while might sound reasonable to you, its only because your mind chose them to be. Besides the first asterisk (*) (its indeed in the game and a very similar while totally different case in the same time) everything else you mentioned is just how you see the game, not how the game really is. Now go and check the OP, and tell me if any of the points made there have even the slightest pinch of bias...

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Regulator wrote:

... Its a common joke around here, but if they implemented a rhoa-racing event that gated passives, wouldnt that part of the game be bastardized poe? ARPG + racer? would you find that acceptable?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

Why should it be good to have some or none or all? Were do you base your assumption? Just your personal satisfaction and enjoyment?

And here is the issue, if the initial analysis/thoughts are biased how can really the answers/suggestion be truly helpful? They are not even the right ones to begin with because of the origin. In no case im trying to make you agree with reallocating the ascendancy points/creating new ascencion methods. Nor to make you despise the labyrinth or the playstyle it provides. Only to make people see how bad effect the labyrinth has truly to the game. Design-wise its a disgrace, a monstrocity that took the game to a totally different path. And no, different does not mean better in this case.

Not responding to any of the other drivel.

First, it's not personal preference, it's solid design. If all enemies are the same, then there isn't diversity of play, which means there isn't more than a small handful of preferences appealed to. That's why I said having some unkillable and/or leech-immune enemies is a good thing, and having some percent-instead-of-flat damage effects is a good thing.

The biggest problem with their implementation of these two entirely separate concepts (unkillable, and percentage-damage) is that they're overly concentrated in one place. Not just the Lab, but even on the same enemies (every immortal enemy in the game currently deals percent-damage). Good design would have been to spread traps, in lower concentrations, all over Wraeclast (or at least as a map affix, if Trials as tutorials are really that damn important); to have less traps in the labirynth; to include multiple trap types which do flat damage the normal way; to design at least one normal, killable enemy which deals percent-damage. This would create a far wider variety of play experiences and not make the Lab feel so different from normal play (the attempt limit is already all the uniqueness the Lab requires, all by itself).

I'm not sure different is better, but variety is better. The problem is actually a failure to maximize the possible combinations, thus failing to capitalize on potential variety. The rest of the game is XXX, the labirynth is YYY; this ignores XXY, XYX, and XYY (although I think the attempt limit mechanic should be a Lab exclusive, so I'd ignore YXX, YXY, YYX).

Lastly, you're not really trying to fix anything. This thread has always been about running from a problem rather than solving it. "I hate the Lab, so let's make it so the Lab is optional." Cowardice and passive-aggression. The proper approach is "I hate the Lab, so let's make it so I like the Lab."

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

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Amathiusmm wrote:

I believe that what is central to alot of people's objections to Lab - and what is not said , is that for the most part many of these players have reduced risk almost entirely from their gameplay experience.

I think many of them are not used to actually being threatened in the way the lab threatens players and it is a failure to adjust. That the lab is a problem for many standard players makes me laugh since ive never played standard and running lab in HC is so much more dangerous. Its just players attempting to make the game more casual ala WoW forum screeching. Bear in mind the forum population is tiny , but vocal and does not necessarily display the views of the majority of those playing poe . Personally i believe lab should be about 20-40% more difficult.

Lets hope GGG understands this.

I think that your perception of what many people's objection is, is incorrect.

Decent for a useless troll post though, I guess.