Donald Trump

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Disrupted wrote:

Pretty sure he said a bit more than that before, something like "they are not sending us their best".Or you gonna tell me there are no mexican drugs and gangs inside the US?
But hey, context is for racists. Omitting is for "good people".

Who is sending them?

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Disrupted wrote:

you know, the same kind of "good people" who here also in the forums, easily expressed opinions regarding the "refugee" crysis (use "" cause you know very fucking well the majority are economic migrants taking advantage of syrian refugees plight) as pretty much for open borders and when shit like cologne news years happens they did not say a thing. Then you wonder why people dont like you.
But its ok, just label those that do not agree with you however you like. Remember its not discriminatory (and is actually speaking of high intelligence) to do so (John Oliver told me so).

That's a strawman. Also, what's the percentage of economic migrants anyway? It doesn't come often in discussion, and it's poorly defined.

I'll let this here. It requires some analysis, and it's not complete, but it's a good start.

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NeroNoah wrote:

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Disrupted wrote:

Pretty sure he said a bit more than that before, something like "they are not sending us their best".Or you gonna tell me there are no mexican drugs and gangs inside the US?
But hey, context is for racists. Omitting is for "good people".

Who is sending them?

"

Disrupted wrote:

you know, the same kind of "good people" who here also in the forums, easily expressed opinions regarding the "refugee" crysis (use "" cause you know very fucking well the majority are economic migrants taking advantage of syrian refugees plight) as pretty much for open borders and when shit like cologne news years happens they did not say a thing. Then you wonder why people dont like you.
But its ok, just label those that do not agree with you however you like. Remember its not discriminatory (and is actually speaking of high intelligence) to do so (John Oliver told me so).

That's a strawman. Also, what's the percentage of economic migrants anyway? It doesn't come often in discussion, and it's poorly defined.

I'll let this here.

Numerous reasons why someone decides to go to another country, nobody is "sending them" and I did not say that either, that does not make it racist. It just makes the statement stupidly broad, but its very well impossible to resume it correctly in a small statement. You know what he meant and because no one else is tackling the problem you get someone like trump to voice it.

That has to do with the cologne thread part too, every little elf is out of the woodworks to say "hey, im a good person" by pointing an obvious crisis and taking the most humanist-seeming ("seeming" added because they are clearly ignoring distribution logistics and resources and are unrealistic in their views), yet they stay shut when anything bad happens.

is it really a strawman now? go back a few pages and see how many times people here say shit alike "trump voters are the lowest common denominator" (ofc the john oliver comment was more mockingly though im pretty sure there's a link somewhere in the thread).


And yes, its poorly defined. but its clear that they are not all primarily from syria like people like to pretend.

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Disrupted wrote:

Numerous reasons why someone decides to go to another country, nobody is "sending them" and I did not say that either, that does not make it racist. It just makes the statement stupidly broad, but its very well impossible to resume it correctly in a small statement. You know what he meant and because no one else is tackling the problem you get someone like trump to voice it.

Trump says that. I think that video is not out of context, correct me if I'm wrong. Why do I have to interprete it differently of what he is exactly says (A mere paranoid rant)? There are problems, but I'm sure Trump just talks like a paranoic there. Don't blame people if it rubs them the wrong way. It sounds fairly xenophobic. A lot of awful people come, but no one is sending them, and Mexico is not actively screwing with US. Why is the wall proposition not enough to treat him like a dumb person?

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Disrupted wrote:

That has to do with the cologne thread part too, every little elf is out of the woodworks to say "hey, im a good person" by pointing an obvious crisis and taking the most humanist-seeming ("seeming" added because they are clearly ignoring distribution logistics and resources and are unrealistic), yet they stay shut when anything bad happens. This kind of is it really a strawman now? go back a few pages and see how many times people here say shit alike "trump voters are the lowest common denominator" (ofc the john oliver comment was more mockingly though im pretty sure there's a link somewhere in the thread).


And yes, its poorly defined. but its clear that they are not all primarily from syria like people like to pretend.

I remember the threads about the terrorists attacks. I don't see it the same way. People won't talk forever about things like the Paris' attacks, the Brussels' attacks or the Cologne attacks because the whole world has that shit constantly. One gets insensitivized.

I remember the birther in this thread. Also, someone said Trump is an alpha male (it was silly, what is this, a fraternity?). Then there was the Bernie supporter becoming a Trump supporter. And the cheetah kid. I have to see well articulated defenses of Trump besides of talking about the media spinning, terrifying the establishment or how the Muslims should be in their safe space. They talk about what they think that are the problems (be wrong or right) but that's hardly a good reason to support Trump given the shit solutions he proposed. Just because he talks about some problems (and some I'd argue are overblown or invented), it doesn't mean he has any reasonable solution.

Those who are not from Syria come from obvious shitholes (Iraq, Eritrea, Afghanistan). Search for statistics that show otherwise.

If you say there are logistic problems (not everyone can be helped, integration problems), ok. But the economic migrant thing requires more evidence, else it's just excuses.

PS: this article is from the Economist, a center-right paper (bah, more centrist this days), so no one comes saying I should not use lefty sources.

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NeroNoah wrote:

Trump says that.

erh, yes, I know. I said I did not say that because you mentioned it as if it mattered. I see it as a figure of speech due to being unable to resuming the situation. Not a nice figure of speech, mind you, I would prolly take offense if I was mexican.

I also remembered no one batted an eye here when I put the video of Sanders saying white people dont know what poverty is. blatant racism and nobody called it out. (but well, he appeals to groups like BLM who will stand behind anyone has long as they are black, so its no surprise, I especially liked when the brother of a wife beater they were defending admits he supports ISIS)

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NeroNoah wrote:

I remember the threads about the terrorists attacks.

Not what Im talking about.
where is the cologne new years thread? Where was it?

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NeroNoah wrote:

Also, someone said Trump is an alpha male (it was silly, what is this, a fraternity?)

He is, its important if only for the cult of character and understanding what brings one towards him.

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NeroNoah wrote:

I have to see well articulated defenses of Trump besides of talking about the media spinning,

Well, can just talk for myself here. But I am not defending Trump per se, but rather the factual truth. Hell, there's a fuckton of shit I dont agree with from him. I personally just see him as the lesser of few evils. and Ill repeat one of my earliest posts in this thread.
People dont understand how good they have it with him, a president is not omnipotent, his more ridiculous propositions would never pass but him being in office would leave to some actual immigration problems being tackled (with or without memewall). Sanders on the other hand, is very good at bending over for some groups and his ridiculous propositions wont pass either. Might as well call him Obama 2.0, just with more SJW in him (well obama perpretated the wage gap myth too so...).
There's a clear dislike with dishonest left and its making the more extreme right grow. I firmly believe that if there's no attempt to stabilize the current political spectrum, it will make it for a very, very dark future and rise of a popular candidate that you wont have to make up shit about.

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NeroNoah wrote:

Those who are not from Syria come from obvious shitholes (Iraq, Eritrea, Afghanistan). Search for statistics that show otherwise

Not refuting such point. Just saying that its impossible and downright stupid to accept every person and people calling the EU racist and whatnot despite all their efforts so far are idiots themselves. The numbers make integration and receiving of immigrants, downright impossible. I could say that there's enough food in the world to feed everybody too. but I would be lying because I know that food perishes and there's no instant teleportation device available.

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NeroNoah wrote:

But the economic migrant thing requires more evidence, else it's just excuses.

excuses for what, exactly? Im not on top of this shit and am no activist, but I remember seeing, several cases of abandoned passports (because its easier to have none and say you are syrian).
And hell, that's just fucking obvious. To a point that EU is sending back many people already. As obvious as there being ISIS inflitrates (although a minority), yet some people actually deny that possibility.

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NeroNoah wrote:

A lot of awful people come, but no one is sending them, and Mexico is not actively screwing with US.

There are some families who do send a son or husband over to work and send money back. This used to be far more common than it is now, where the effort is to get the entire family across. There is a lot of smuggling, both of people and of drugs that comes across, and can definitely say the drug smugglers are being sent.

It isn't an insignificant amount of smuggling either. As an example, there are large sections of national parks that citizens are warned against entering now because of the high number of violent drug smugglers and human smugglers.

It used to be you could enjoy the natural beauty:



Not anymore:



There are areas of the Arizona National Park that are actually closed because of the violence:

http://radioviceonline.com/portion-of-national-park-on-border-closed-to-americans-due-to-violence/




This is a small sample of what some of what was nearly pristine desert twenty years ago looks like now:

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NeroNoah wrote:

Why is the wall proposition not enough to treat him like a dumb person?

Maybe because the "Wall" already partially exists, and because it is an option that has long been considered viable by people who actually live in the region? Before Trump ever spoke of it, another 700 miles was being considered for funding by the US Senate.

Take your pick of existing sections of the wall:

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NeroNoah wrote:

Just because he talks about some problems (and some I'd argue are overblown or invented), it doesn't mean he has any reasonable solution.

Let's say you are nauseated, running a fever and there's a nasty rash spreading across your body.


One Doctor tells you that bacteria are a natural part of life, and to just get used to them.

One Doctor says he doesn't see anything wrong, that it is all in your head.

One Doctor takes your temperature, looks at what you have and prescribes some medicine that you doubt will work.

Which doctor (hah!) are you going to choose when they are the only three choices?

That's why Cruz and Rubio and Bush never got off the ground. They saw potential undocumented votes and pretended as if no problem exists. Trump waffles and changes his mind regularly. He hasn't really offered any solutions, but he and Bernie are the only candidate who at least acknowledging some long standing problems that other politicians won't even admit exist.

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Disrupted wrote:

I also remembered no one batted an eye here when I put the video of Sanders saying white people dont know what poverty is. blatant racism and nobody called it out. (but well, he appeals to groups like BLM who will stand behind anyone has long as they are black, so its no surprise, I especially liked when the brother of a wife beater they were defending admits he supports ISIS)

This is the Trump thread, not the Bernie thread. Someone could create the Bernie thread, or you can talk about it. He deserves criticism, but it's moot given that he will defeated very likely by Hilary at this point. I have praised some general proposals, but I know his flaws.

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Disrupted wrote:

Not what Im talking about.
where is the cologne new years thread? Where was it?

*shrugs* I don't know. No one bothered, it seems (I just searched). Not cool at all, but everyone had the chance to do it.

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Disrupted wrote:

He is, its important if only for the cult of character and understanding what brings one towards him.

I dislike the terminology. It's from the jock dictionary, or for zoologists. Izaro wouldn't aprove a leader like him, :P

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Disrupted wrote:

I personally just see him as the lesser of few evils. and Ill repeat one of my earliest posts in this thread.

The thing is that he hasn't said a good thing at all. He is a wild card. Some things like the tax plan he released show that he will govern as Bush did, probably. I disagree he is the lesser evil.

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Disrupted wrote:

Not refuting such point. Just saying that its impossible and downright stupid to accept every person and people calling the EU racist and whatnot despite all their efforts so far are idiots themselves. The numbers make integration and receiving of immigrants, downright impossible. I could say that there's enough food in the world to feed everybody too. but I would be lying because I know that food perishes and there's no instant teleportation device available.

Well, the first ones to say that it was impossible were the ones with the least immigrants, so that's tricky to say the least. It's a shit show. If anything, you should be more tolerant of that opinion in Germany or Sweeden, not Poland or something.

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Disrupted wrote:

excuses for what, exactly? Im not on top of this shit and am no activist, but I remember seeing, several cases of abandoned passports (because its easier to have none and say you are syrian).
And hell, that's just fucking obvious. To a point that EU is sending back many people already. As obvious as there being ISIS inflitrates (although a minority), yet some people actually deny that possibility.

I don't think the number of people that deny that is too high. At least not in this forums. There are many problems with refugees, but you have to talk with hard data, not gut feelings. A lot of them create problems, yet it's true that they are fleeing war. It's hard.

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NeroNoah wrote:

A lot of awful people come, but no one is sending them, and Mexico is not actively screwing with US. Why is the wall proposition not enough to treat him like a dumb person?

You clearly aren't from around those parts. Seriously blaming a NY real estate tycoon for the wall and not the ultra violent Mexican cartels?

Get some perspective.

Better yet, go watch Sicario, right naow

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DalaiLama wrote:

Maybe because the "Wall" already partially exists, and because it is an option that has long been considered viable by people who actually live in the region? Before Trump ever spoke of it, another 700 miles was being considered for funding by the US Senate.

There are other travel methods, druglords would go full Devil May Cry on a wall just to stick it to Trump, and Mexico won't pay for it (no, Trump can't force it).

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DalaiLama wrote:

Let's say you are nauseated, running a fever and there's a nasty rash spreading across your body.


One Doctor tells you that bacteria are a natural part of life, and to just get used to them.

One Doctor says he doesn't see anything wrong, that it is all in your head.

One Doctor takes your temperature, looks at what you have and prescribes some medicine that you doubt will work.

Which doctor (hah!) are you going to choose when they are the only three choices?

That's why Cruz and Rubio and Bush never got off the ground. They saw potential undocumented votes and pretended as if no problem exists. Trump waffles and changes his mind regularly. He hasn't really offered any solutions, but he and Bernie are the only candidate who at least acknowledging some long standing problems that other politicians won't even admit exist.

Isn't that the same I said before? Talking about problems means shit if your solutions are shit.

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TheWretch wrote:

You clearly aren't from around those parts. Seriously blaming a NY real estate tycoon for the wall and not the ultra violent Mexican cartels?

Get some perspective.

Better yet, go watch Sicario, right naow

Trumps blames Mexico. Isn't that evident from the video? He is not subtle at all about it. Unless you are saying Cartels are Mexico. That's the problem, he goes after a whole nation for the problems of a subset of it.

Get some perspective.

Yes, the cartels ARE Mexican and they control most of that country. Get your head out've the sand.

And yes, they ARE messing with the US by smuggling in everything from cocaine to kids to be sold into slavery by the ton, so please, stop. You're looking extremely ignorant.

Plenty of Canadians in the US illegally, funny thing though, our border with them doesn't look like Beirut in the 80s, go figure

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TheWretch wrote:

Yes, the cartels ARE Mexican and they control most of that country. Get your head out've the sand.

And yes, they ARE messing with the US by smuggling in everything from cocaine to kids to be sold into slavery by the ton, so please, stop. You're looking extremely ignorant.

That's just mental gymnastics at this point.