MoreRain: Life&ES CoC Discharge [2.2]

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Shajirr wrote:

Nope. Cyclone hits way faster than an Ice nova

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?
Theres a chance for every single cyclone hit that a spell can be triggered from the coc gem. if cyclone hits something 10 times for 10 crits. Then the coc gem rolls whether the spells can be cast or not based on the percentage of the level of the gem each of those 10 crits. In this order:

- cyclone hit 1 (EE applies)
- cyclone crit 1
- chance to cast spell 1 (EE applies on successfull cast)
- chance to cast spell 2 (EE applies on successfull cast)

- cyclone hit 2 (EE applies)
- cyclone crit 2
- chance to cast spell 1 (EE applies on successfull cast)
- chance to cast spell 2 (EE applies on successfull cast)

- cyclone hit 3 etc etc

(If cyclone doesnt crit obviously neither of the 2 spells does anything and cycle EE remains)

At level 1 coc theres a 50 percent chance that the spell can be cast, at level 21 a 70 percent chance the spells can be triggered.
Though each chance to cast is rolled independently on each gem, though only on a successful cyclone critical strike.

Are you just talking about how cyclone always hits (and thereby applying its EE effect) and ice nova/discharge doesn't always cast? because of cyclone chance to crit, then chance for cast on crit.

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Shajirr wrote:

meaning discharge will almost always hit on +25% fire resist penalty.

The discharge EE penalty is true when you have a sucessful cyclone hit and crit, and ice nova fails to proc, and discharge does. But its not like discharge has a higher chance to cast more than ice nova. as the chance to cast is the same, just rolled independently.

Blade vortex is the best. dont think about Ice nova. forget it.

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krilox wrote:

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gubaguy wrote:

how did you manage to get that much HP and ES? with my current gear im at 74.82% chance to crit, 1994 hp, and 1629 ES.

Spoiler

obviously my shield, and one of my rings needs an update pretty badly, im also not abel to afford elreon diamond rings because they are bloody expensive. same with vagan dagger.

You're missing 300ish es from the helm and 400ish from the shield alone. Still 2k of each does sound very low, what level are you? Id drop dual curses until you have more survivability.

75% crit is alot without power charges, i'm sitting at 56% (got 7 charges though).

PS: You should prioritize a vagan dagger, even uncrafted (crit only) is much better and shouldnt cost much.

Sell the rats, get a vertex and run a high level discipline imo. Clarity should be redudant.

82, i think. Havnt been puttign much time into leveling. and i thought cast on crit needed a lot of crit? I had a shield lined up, a nice one with 350ish ES, and a bunch of spell damage, but no resistences for 20 chaos, but the guy ended up deciding he wanted ot map more then he wanted to sell his junk.

I also have this, my old build was a SRS witch, but i stopped palying her when after ES rework she lsot like 3k ES overall.

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gubaguy wrote:

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krilox wrote:

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gubaguy wrote:

how did you manage to get that much HP and ES? with my current gear im at 74.82% chance to crit, 1994 hp, and 1629 ES.

Spoiler

obviously my shield, and one of my rings needs an update pretty badly, im also not abel to afford elreon diamond rings because they are bloody expensive. same with vagan dagger.

You're missing 300ish es from the helm and 400ish from the shield alone. Still 2k of each does sound very low, what level are you? Id drop dual curses until you have more survivability.

75% crit is alot without power charges, i'm sitting at 56% (got 7 charges though).

PS: You should prioritize a vagan dagger, even uncrafted (crit only) is much better and shouldnt cost much.

Sell the rats, get a vertex and run a high level discipline imo. Clarity should be redudant.

82, i think. Havnt been puttign much time into leveling. and i thought cast on crit needed a lot of crit? I had a shield lined up, a nice one with 350ish ES, and a bunch of spell damage, but no resistences for 20 chaos, but the guy ended up deciding he wanted ot map more then he wanted to sell his junk.

I also have this, my old build was a SRS witch, but i stopped palying her when after ES rework she lsot like 3k ES overall.

CoC needs alot of crit, but it also needs balance like everything else, it's very uncommon to use a rats as a hybrid. Can get a solid 400ish shield with spell crit (80+) cheaper probably :)

Is a +1 gems that much of a deal anymore btw since we only have one spell that truly benefits from it if we use BV?

Considering saving for one, but not sure +1 lvl on discharge and bv, +1% crit chance and +1% chance to coc is worth the shitton of currency.

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b. I will defer to the author since he knows the math and the build far better and you're basically saying his damage calculator is flat out wrong. Also, it does not matter if discharge does the majority of the damage, 50% less resistance on the ice nova at no cost other than planning is a great thing to have.

The author never actually tried to use the +fire damage himself, he said it himself somewhere.
He still has +cold on all his daggers. And he did explain why.
Information on 1st post, like daggers crafting for example, is partially outdated, he didn't fully update it.

PoE17
Yeah I admit partially my explanation was wrong, I was originally going from Ice Nova having a travel time as opposed to instant hits from Discharge and Cyclone, but it doesn't really matter since at point blank range it will still hit before Discharge. Probably.

Anyway, we have a 30% chance of Ice Nova not activating, in this case Discharge hits EE applied by dagger, hitting +25% fire resist.

In my eyes increasing Nova damage, which is minimal, is not worth heavily decreasing Discharge damage in 30% cases.

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Shajirr wrote:

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b. I will defer to the author since he knows the math and the build far better and you're basically saying his damage calculator is flat out wrong. Also, it does not matter if discharge does the majority of the damage, 50% less resistance on the ice nova at no cost other than planning is a great thing to have.

The author never actually tried to use the +fire damage himself, he said it himself somewhere.
He still has +cold on all his daggers. And he did explain why.
Information on 1st post, like daggers crafting for example, is partially outdated, he didn't fully update it.

PoE17
Yeah I admit partially my explanation was wrong, I was originally going from Ice Nova having a travel time as opposed to instant hits from Discharge and Cyclone, but it doesn't really matter since at point blank range it will still hit before Discharge. Probably.

Anyway, we have a 30% chance of Ice Nova not activating, in this case Discharge hits EE applied by dagger, hitting +25% fire resist.

In my eyes increasing Nova damage, which is minimal, is not worth heavily decreasing Discharge damage in 30% cases.

So both the guide and the calculator(whose purpose is to calculate damage output with EE scenarios) are outdated and incorrect and no one actually knows if BV will outperform IN past level 95 or what combination of elements will be optimal for maximizing final damage output?

Let's say for moment IN damage is irrelevant. Then based on your comment it should be the case just get cold damage on dagger, followed by discharge, followed by IN (61,000).
Scenario 1:
cold dagger
discharge procs
ice nova procs

This way no matter procs or does not proc, discharge will always get the full benefit of EE and if discharge does not hit then ice nova hits 25% cold resist. If both procs then the EE chain is complete.

I believe the reason the guide says to use fire dagger is because the following chain will output more damage (65,000) than the above:
fire dagger
ice nova procs
discharge procs

but if nova does not proc then discharge will hit 25% resist(which is only about half of the discharge damage) like you said.

I do not know if the calculator takes this data into account But I would assume so. so in the long run, the first scenario will still do more damage.

Replacing IB with BV simplifies this by a lot and it simply becomes:
cold dagger
discharge
BV

Rly guys aboute EE my head wil blow up XD only 1 question since i am using bv

this ring with add cold to atack wil proc EE with bv ?

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Shecutor wrote:

Rly guys aboute EE my head wil blow up XD only 1 question since i am using bv

this ring

with add cold to atack wil proc EE with bv ?

No. 'added cold to attacks' will not work with blade vortex which is a spell.
It will apply to your cyclone and your whirling blades though.
You will get EE effect with monsters you hit cyclone and whirling blades.

Ok, updated some of my gear, still sitting at 1994 life, and now at 3700 ES, if i swap out my low level discipline for a lvl 19 it jumps to 4100, which i still feel is a tad low. Ive also begun to experience some pretty severe mana issues when attempting to kill bosses, more then once ive run out in a particularly bad streak of not critting and thus not doing damage, and then taking a ton of damage out of nowhere. So mana is an issue right now.ive also sorta been toying with the idea of getting a diffrent curse to supply frenzy charges, not sure how they would actually impact the build though.

anyways, any {more} advice on how to stop dying would be great!